This Country Needs to Split

The great experiment is on the verge of collapsing. We now have a main political party that has moved so far to the left, that the only way to achieve their goals is to completely destroy the United States. The Constitution, traditions, history, morals, etc must be eliminated in order to implement their utopia (Venezuela).

On the other side, you have a political party that is so afraid of being called racists, bigots, sexists, homophobes, etc, that they will compromise those American values just to stay out of the media cross hairs. But the conservative citizens aren't as sissified as their politicians, and won't take these changes lying down. Hence, Donald Trump.

I don't see how the country can ever unite, and more importantly, does see why it has to. For example, if California wants to be a sanctuary state to illegal aliens, they should have that right. Conversely, the other states shouldn't have to pay for those aliens. Healthcare, guns, religion, education, education, etc, etc. The 2 sides couldn't be any farther apart.

So, how's it gonna work? If it comes to comes to a violent 'war', things will end very quickly and very badly for the Left. I imagine it would take decades for a peaceful separation. Point is, what are we hanging onto? It's like being in a marriage with both people absolutely hating each other, having nothing in common, and won't compromise one bit on their beliefs.

So IF a separation happens, how's it going to look?

 

Anybody who is not happy is welcome to split.

Split to europe, split to Canada, split to mexico, split wherever you like. We will keep all 50 states tyvm.

 

Yet another righty on this forum advocating secession and violence to end this union. News flash for you....I'm considered a "lefty" and I'm well armed and trained. A civil war won't end well for the right either.

 

Imagine what you could do if conservatives leave the union. You'd be able to go full Finland.

 

Lots of assumptions there.

 

Such as?

 

So why would conservatives elect politicians who are more sissified than they are?

 

What gives you the idea I'd want "to go full Finland"?

 

Sorry for terrible grammar and formatting I'm on my phone.

I doubt we'll have anything that comes close to a civil war. People like to think that the different sides are split up by States that's just majority, there are people from all political viewpoints surrounding me, you, everyone. There are no borders for this. Civil Wars virtually impossible but certainly I can see skirmishes between two crazy groups that get real ugly. But nothing more. Maybe a few hundred people on either sides going at it but that's okay they'll be easier to pinpoint and arrest

Lots of yelling and loud mouths for sure, that will be unfortunate.

At the end of the day the Divide isn't nearly as bad as people are led to believe by the MSM. All we have is a bunch of extreme voices on opposite sides that are yelling at each other and quite frankly it's the 3% on the left that is most of the yelling, not all, but when the media portrays them they throw this poll that shows 54% support. Yes?, maybe.

Sure 54% might support a particular issue but only like 300 people went Gaga over it made a bunch of stupid signs on when marching in the street blocking traffic, banging on doors, or whatever. and they're the ones getting all the attention, they are the .54% not the 54%.

If we stop pretending that that tiny sliver of extremist on both sides represent the group as whole we'd all be better off and they'd be easier to ignore.

Bottom line is the country's not going to split because it's really only one out of three hundred people that really want to split, the rest of us are just fine. We eat drink play and pay taxes together and we're doing okay.

Just like when everybody was going to move to Canada but 99% of them that said that probably never even Googled home prices, all talk.

 

I don't think most people are as nuts as it seems.

Listening to the current "president", or hanging out on forums such as this, the "crazy" seems like it's everywhere.

Not there there aren't a lot of problems and differences and so on....

but I really don't think most normal people care about any of this bull really.

One thing's for sure, Trump has done the opposite of making America "great". It seems like a complete sh*t show at this time.

 

I suppose I'm the righty "advocating secession and violence." The " advocating violence" is an outright lie. Read any of my posts.

I suppose a lawyer could argue that secession implies violence, but so did, for example, resisting Hitler, or fighting for Black rights in the South (which I also did, and carried a gun sometimes while doing it, and helped arm a Black self-defence group while doing it). But that would just be a slimey evasion.

I advocate beginning to talk about peaceful separation -- not 'secession' since the remaining Blue regions will have no right to continue to be called 'the United States of America' -- they'll be busy tearing down and burning their American flags, re-writing their history books, painting over patriotic murals, [pulling down the statues of racist slaveowners like Washington and Jefferson as fast as they can.

But at the end of the day, to use that old cliche, the question of armed force won't be off the minds of people calculating how to act. If those desiring peaceful separation don't want to end up like this fellow, they should indeed be armed. They should follow Mr rcfoolincar288's admirable example, but not his disregard for honestly representing the views of an opponent.

 

OK, we can let the south secede, and then watch their economies collapse. it would be fun.

And they WOULD collapse. Texas is literally the only red state which pays more in federal taxes than they take in federal aid.

And even Texas wouldn't survive without federal subsidies to their oil companies which make up a huge chunk of their economy.

So they lose NASA jobs, all federal subsidies. Federal money for their school, roads, etc....And they have to pay for it all themselves. I'm good with that.

 

No. That's a rightwing fantasy, masculine conservative deer hunters and veterans engaging with scrawny pasty-faced Anti-Fa types backed up by a few ghetto hoodlums.

You forget the American military. AR15's are no match for AC130s.

We have to have moral supremacy, effective legality. The Left must be the people seen to initiate violence. They must fire the first shot. (And don't worry about that. If we do it right, the Left will oblige.)

That's why we have to have a cool, rational, sober extended conversation about peaceful separation. There are dozens of issues to talk about and work out. Who pays the pensions, who gets the movable government property, etc etc etc. A lawyer's paradise.

This means, among other things, that some of us must study the examples of other countries where there have been separations, and/or which allow for separation now -- Canada, the UK ... it's really a civilized liberal idea. It should not be too difficult, over the years, to convince a significant number of people on the Left that, in principle, if a majority, or a super-majority, as their settled desire (meaning possibly two referendums where the 'leavers' have to get 60% or more of those voting) want to leave, they can.

But first, public opinion must be prepared. And we have to shake off the chains of empire.

There are many variants of separation. Perhaps a federation of the American nations for defense purposes, a kind of super-strong alliance for dealing with outside threats. (That's why we need to get rid of our imperially-overstretched military presence abroad. It will be much easier to agree a defensiv military alliance between 'Red' America and 'Blue' America, if we're not worrying about which new Islamic state to bring democracy to.\0

But first the basic idea must be raised. We must seek allies on the Left. There are plenty of people there who would be happy to see us go. We must raise the idea among them, get their best thinkers to start thinking about it. We must not do it in a spirit of contempt or anger or disdain for them, regardless of how we feel. An amicable divorce, so they can carry on their leftward political development without our hindrance.

The first people to raise this idea will of course be scorned, laughed at, then hated and derided. Some on the Left foresee a total national victory within a few years, and after that will come satisfying punishment of our side, in various ways. Perhaps a new face on the dollar bill, removing that racist slave-owner George Washington, now being painted over in San Francisco, and replacing him with Al Sharpton. The possibilities are endless.

And they are not wrong: demographics are on their side, unfortunately. So we must move with some urgency.

But first we must raise the issue, soberly, tentatively, devoid of all malice towards our friends on the Left. No macho bragging about shoot-outs, and -- I am a sinner here, I confess -- no gleeful predictions about what the new Leftist paradise will be like -- okay, that's not really psychologically possible, but only in response to provocations.

Just start talking about it, wherever you can. A peaceful separation, an amicable divorce. Right now it sounds crazy, but so, just a few years ago, would have transgendered males competing in women's sports and winning have sounded. (Okay, it still sounds insane, but this is what's happening to Blue America ... blue being the color you go when you stop breathing and the oxygen stops getting to your brain cells.)

With the greatest reluctance, with no illusions about the difficulties involved even in an amicable divorce, with infinite sadness at the end of the Great Experiment in becoming the world's melting pot and creating a City on the Hill -- we've got to part.

"Parting is such sweet sorrow" but it must be.

 

YES!!!!!!!!! Well done!!!

Help us spread the idea, please!

I think it was Thomas Acquinas who said that one of the pleasures of the Saved in Heaven would be to watch the torments of the damned in Hell.

You've got so much to look forward to! Liberals don't like to think about what happened in Africa after the white colonialists left .. but now you'll be able to enjoy human suffering because it will be us stupid toothless rednecks enduring the pain.

So get to work ... convince your side that this might be a wonderful development.

 

I actually think it's a good idea now when I didn't used to. The left still hasn't accepted the 2016 election results. How the hell are we supposed to move on when one party refuses the results of an election? We can't ignore the left, because they have the house. They can try impeachment, but it won't go anywhere. It's the lefts wet dream. The president will have to do a lot by executive order and ignore the left if I was his adviser. These people refuse to compromise and work together. It's why called them traitors in one of my last threads, because that's exactly what they are.

 

I don't want open borders and socialism. The left keeps saying they aren't for open borders, but their actions say otherwise. They keep blocking construction of the wall, how are you supposed to interpret that? A wall would help and these imbeciles still don't get that. The only explanation I can think of and I said this before is that they need illegals for votes. It's unamerican and treasonous.

 

They killed Lincoln, because Wilkes Booth was a democrat. It shows how much they hate our country.

 

Would this were true! But it's the 'extremists' who make history. Probably a majority of the English colonists in the thirteen states did NOT support treason against their King. But history isn't made by taking referendums. Events drive history.

If the Democrats were like the Democrats of yesterday, you would be absolutely right. But they're not. Yes, only a minority of Leftist 'crazies' (but they're NOT crazy) went down to Fergusson Missouri from all over the country, to riot and spread the lie that Michael Brown was murdered in cold blood by a racist white policeman. Obama's Justice Department investigated and found that this was a lie.

Now the Michael Brown lie is being retailed by many of the Democratic candidates for President. Thus the 'crazies' lead the nice liberals along.

Why is this? Because liberalism, like conservatism, is just a disposition, not an ideology. You believe in fairness and equality and have a disposition, being nice people, to support the oppressed.. If the oppressed behave badly, it must be the fault of their oppressors. Thus you are easily led to the Left, laughing off developments today that you will accept tomorrow and then champion the day after. Paint over George Washington's mural as the San Francisco Board of Education is doing? Right now, sensible liberals feel uneasy about that. Tomorrow they will accept it, as 'understandable'. The day after tomorrow, they'll be wielding the paintbrush.

At first, any new idea involving radical change sounds crazy. And no one likes to be thought of as a nutter, an extremist. And most proposals for radical change are bad ideas -- this is the default central idea -- no, 'disposition' -- of conservatism. So the initial reaction of most conservatives will be identical to yours, reinforced by the natural strong American patriotism that is so much weaker on the Left (except when pulling down statues of Confederate generals).

But ... if an idea corresponds to the perceived interests of large numbers of people ... if it is seen to be more relevant year after year, as the Hard Left begins to dominate the Democratic Party, as Michael Brown goes from being a doped up thug to a hero ... that 3 out of hundred is going to grow.

Because tjere will be life and death consequences to the Michael Brown as Martyr view, as this view of the world grows within the Democratic Party. The Obama Justice Department cleared the innocent white policeman. The Elizabeth Warren Justice Department would have imprisoned him for twenty years. Out on the mean streets of America's cities, that message will not go unheeded. Pity the poor policemen then.

There is of course huge, terrifying, potential for violence. My side has its crazies too, perhaps more than on yours.

So we need to have a friendly, sober conversation about an amicable divorce, which is really in the interests of both sides.

 

Don't you think the left has lost it though since Hillary lose the election? I mean it still seems they can't get over those election results. They need to get into therapy and get help.

 

I'm sure you are trying to be cute or something but you are absolutely making no sense whatsoever.

 

The last time conservatives wanted a "peaceful" separation, they got their @$$ kicked. Y'all sure don't learn very well.

Oh...and your opinion is nothing but pure fantasy.

 

Why don't you all just let us leave this time peacefully? We didn't need the Civil War to begin with if we were just left alone.

 

I don't think America has the (whatever you want to call it... balls maybe? something) to violently impose unity on a whole state if it secedes. With a state goes its National Guard and likely some of its regular military bases as well, and many of its native servicemembers. Defectors, moles and double agents would be everywhere. Any military action would be pure chaos, with both armed veterens and 'green' citizens throwing and becoming monkey-wrenches in everything.

As an example, a small group of people with some knowledge of utilities, marksmanship and a few high powered rifles could take out (and keep out) the water and power to a metro area (without actually shooting any people), leading to mass civil unrest very quickly that will require ALL loyal police and military to occupy it to merely keep it (and its population) from being burnt to the ground by looters and gangs. I imagine this will be a popular tactic by both sides in a secession scenario, leading to multiple cities in a region being effected and the less populated countryside largely being left to anarchy.

The govt has war-gamed this sort of thing ad-nauseum, and I imagine all efforts will instead be made to find a peaceful resolution, up to and possibly including simply allowing the secession. However this will lead to more with every new controvercial federal law.

Perhaps it will merely take one serious attempt at secession and FedGov will cede back much of the states their autonomy of local government to keep them in the union.

Or we'll have a big war about it, with most of the casualties resulting from starvation and violent civil dissorder in the population centers.

 

No. It would seem neither Trump or the right have gotten over the election. Trump is butt hurt that he didn't win the popular vote and won by the Electoral College that he say sucked. The right, of course, brings up Clinton every chance it gets.

 

What I'm saying is Booth didn't like Lincoln freeing the slaves and as a democrat which Booth was, he killed him. Democrats today still idolize him.