This Country Needs to Split

Yes, you've hit on the real problem. Not so much the economic one -- that will be hard to figure out, but as we have seen in much of the world, people will trade a hgher standard of living, for being able to be ruled by people who have the same culture as they do. If economic prosperity overruled everything, we would still have Rhodesia and apartheid South Africa. But it will certainly be a big problem, and it would be dishonest in the extreme to promise that the new Red State America will not face economic difficulties. The consequences are not easy to forecast, but there is no reason to think everything will be wonderful on the economic side.

No, the real problem will be the human one. When you've got two peoples sharing the same state, but differentiated geographically, separation is not hard. Sweden-Norway, Scotand-UK Quebec-Canada. It's when there is geographical mixing, where separation means population transfer, that the blood hits the fan. Witness Yugoslavia, even India during Partition. Even loyalist Tories in the US did not find it easy during and after the Revolution.

Maybe we will be able to do better. In the ideal world, both sides would be run by humane minded people, not eager ot punish 'the other side' who remain behind. The offer of dual citizenship to people who were citizens of the Old America might help.

In other words, the Lincoln attitude towards the South. Then, future years would test where it was better to live -- would conservatives in Blue America just accept their situation and remain, or would they gradually drift to the other side; and the same for liberals in Red America.

It would help if the boundaries were drawn with great flexibility, and no selfish desire to retain the greatest amount of territory regardless of the wishes of the local population. In other words, not mechanically along state lines, but along county or Congressional District lines, so that as few people as possible are 'trapped' on the wrong side. Avoid Yugoslavia at all costs. Ideally, the new countries -- at least the 'Red State' one --should allow the same right of separation for their sub-units that they have just exercised, so that their 'Blue' citizens feel that they have a chance of reversing the decision of their neighbors if life in 'Red' America proves to be as impoverishing as you think it might. (Something like this might go a long way to healing divisions in Ukraine, fas well.)

In discussing possible separation, there will always be a strong temptation to taunt the other side: we will be eating our own shoeleather, you will be walking through human excrement on your sidewalk to your Spanish lessons, bilingualism having been reversed in favor the language of the new majority.

We should try to avoid that, and have a sober assessment of the possible difficulties, which will no doubt be great, but which can be minimized somewhat by intelligent planning and goodwill on both sides.

 

Quite right. He was a Democrat of the old school. No more of these left ... well, maybe Joe Biden. There is an automatic partisanship in American politics which makes the label much more important than the policy.. But things are changing rapidly. I keep saying that many social conservatives are economic liberals (liberal in the FDR sense, not 'Austrians'!) And labels are becoming less meaningful: I don't know if this is typical outside this forum, but it's been interesting to see how many of my fellow conservative share my high regard for Tulsi Gabbard. Interesting times.

 

How could there be a violent 'war'? We've been told ad nauseam that the Left wants to ban guns. Logic would then dictate that the Left (collectively) doesn't really have much in the way of guns. Therefore, who are you expecting this violent 'war' with? Not much of a war if one side doesn't have much in the way of weapons wouldn't ya say?
We used to be a country where BOTH sides tolerated the differences each side had regarding politics, but somewhere along the way that tolerance (on both sides) has gone away. Now each side thinks their way is the best and ONLY way. Which is just silly. Many times there is a happy medium between the two extremes.

 

Remember what happened the last time the country split? It wasn’t a fun time.

 

Even the bluest of blue states has a sizable group of red voters, and vice versa. There is no way to split things up, and moreso, it's illegal to do so. The last time we tried to split the country up, it resulted in a civil war.

 

The only folks seriously thinking about a divided America are a few loose screws on the far right and, as usual, they aren't thinking at all. The United States is a singularity, not an association. We settled that in 1865. Today, red and blue states are interdependent and it's impossible to divide them by any meaningful measure. Blue states are lot richer than red states, but red states have our nation's food supply, and the beat goes on.

Anyone with even a rudimentary understanding in economics knows the collective economy of the United States is enormously complex. Our Constitution is the glue that holds the pieces together, a shared Constitution and, until recently, a shared set of values. This set of values is what has come under attack recently and that causes a great schism in our social fabric. The root cause of this leads directly to toxic politics. Quell that and we're on our way to unification.

 

Perhaps what needs to happen is the Trumpists who have applauded while Individual 1 has violated the Constitution, traditions, history, morals, and every other convention of decency, should all go to the Dakotas and form a white nationalist shithole.

Scaramucci: Trump's 'gone off the rails'
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/12/anthony-scaramucci-trump-off-the-rails-1458153

“I think that’s pretty obvious from over the weekend,” Scaramucci said. “I mean, the guy’s actually dissembling a little bit, and he’s sounding more and more nonsensical. And, you know, we’re sort of anesthetized to it.”

 

This Country Needs to Split

This country needs to shed itself of all the anger and intolerance.

 

It's difficult to do when the POTUS is continually using his bully pulpit to stoke anger and intolerance.

 

I laugh at you trolling for Russian interest..

 

So you want the country to shed people from BOTH sides of the aisle who are angry and intolerant?

 

Basically speaking, about 1/3 of the population in the most extreme red/blue states are of the other bent. Way too many to allow for seccession.

 

You got me, I'm a Russian.

Funny, a lot of liberals and even candidates are openly socialist and communist. Yet you accuse the right of being in bed with the Russians. lol

 

I never said the right was in bed with the Ruskies but you evidently are. I can really tell when you start dancing nervously around the issue.

 

Yea right. Leftists in California formed a movement to get California out of the union after Trump was elected.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes_California


There is also a movement to make California and the parts of the Southwestern United Starts part of Mexico.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconquista_(Mexico)

 

No. I want to shed the anger and intolerance, not the people.

 

Really? Does he make you angry and intolerant?

 

You and me both. Sadly I don't see that happening anytime soon.

 

The North was Republican. The South was Democrat. In fact, the Republican Party was founded on Abolition. Also, the NRA was to help blacks against the KKK.

Your revisionism is hilarious.

 

Damn. Where do you get this stuff. The Right won the election.

 

Well said. I know we don't see eye to eye on a lot, but on this issue, we do. Also, to some degree, the blue states are concentrating the wealth made in the red states. Corporate headquarters are more often in the blue states.

 

And Conservatives love the poverty and the murderous abuse of the natives by the whites when in control of Africa..It's what Christ commanded them to do...

 

I has become ingrained in our culture.

 

People are nuts

 

Your side doesn't want you armed. Wake up!