If Buddha Speaks ! Perhaps you should listen

As I said there are more than one path to Truth..

To pork or not to pork is irrelevant. That's human preference. That was attributed to god.

Since Krishna, Buddha and Christ are avatars of the same God He would be schizoid if it mattered to Him. Lol

 

Yes in general but - the Pork question is not irrelevant. "Pork being a euphemism for sex as well " but regardless of the activity

If one avatar says Yes - and the other says No - but it matters not to God where Truth comes from - what justification is there for law on the basis of religious belief ?

This is an argument for separation of Church and State is it not ?

 

Yes I think so for who wants sharia law or something like it? Can you imagine old Judaic law being enforced by the state?

Yet even most secular law in the west comes from common sense judeo christian law that is said to come from god. But even if religion didn't exist most of those laws would be in place in the necessity of order over chaos. Like laws against taking another life, theft etc. Necessity is the mother of invention.

I guess when you have people living together rules and laws have to be created..

 

Strangely enough, your "Love neighbor as self God" condemns all followers of other religions to eternal torture in hell, while the "petty and nasty" gives worshipers of other gods a chance to eternal life...

Things are rarely, if ever, black or white, you know.

Your question has no answer. It's too vague. There's no definition of the "wrong place". We have to assume that this is the religion of another god, but since you speak of all gods, all religions can be the wrong place - or none. This is very confusing.

The history of religious beliefs proves that worshipers of all gods have no qualms about accepting ideas from different religions as truths. Religious syncretism is a common feature of human societies throughout history. Followers of one god don't take offense if the truth comes from another god's followers. What gods themselves might think about it, it's an entirely different matter. We'll have to assume gods really exist, they are as described by their respective religions (though no one is "the only one true god" in this scenario), and many of them don't care about human worshipers at all (retired gods like Odin or Zeus).

Or there's only one god with a really bad case of multiple personality disorder...

 

I don't think we can call it "judeo christian law" in all but a distantly related way - all the standard laws - some included in the "Commands" - don't kill, steal, shag thy neighbors wife and so on - were standard Law long before Jesus - long before Moses - and prior to Abraham.

The big contribution of Jesus - Putting the Golden Rule as the rock on which is teachings were based - was cool - but not new - proceeding Jesus by at least 100 years was Rabbi Hillel - in this exact doctrine

It is true that this doctrine forms the basis for the social contract - but the Enlightenment thinkers were well read folks - knowing that Jesus was not the first - but if you can tie things to Christianity - all the better for marketing purposes.

but we are wandering a bit down the rabbit hole - If the source of Truth doesn't matter to God - it follows that Law should not be made on the basis of "God says so" !

If we can find a happy union between Law arrived at through rational thought - coinciding with a Law that happens to have religious justification - all the better. Enter "The Golden Rule"

Related Founding Father food for thought - Congress should not establish a religion, and enforce the legal observation of it by law, nor compel men to worship God in any Manner contrary to their conscience.-- James Madison, explaining to Congress during the House Debate what the First Amendment means to him, 1 Annals of Congress 730 (August 15, 1789), That his conception of "establishment" was quite broad is revealed in his veto as President in 1811 of a bill which in granting land reserved a parcel for a Baptist Church in Salem, Mississippi (directly above this entry)

The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
-- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-82

Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one-half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.
-- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-82

Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind.
-- John Adams, "A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America" (1787-88 ) , from Adrienne Koch, ed, The American Enlightenment: The Shaping of the American Experiment and a Free Society (1965) p. 258

As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?-- John Adams, letter to FA Van der Kamp, December 27, 1816

When philosophic reason is clear and certain by intuition or necessary induction, no subsequent revelation supported by prophecies or miracles can supersede it.-- John Adams, from Rufus K Noyes, Views of Religion, quoted from from James A Haught, ed, 2000 Years of Disbelief

 

Now that is a bold statement - How so ?

There is a definition of "wrong place" - no wonder you are confused. I would suggest you begin your search by reading the OP again.

Sometimes - but we are not talking about these times - the OP , and you can go to other posts for further detail - is talking about the times when adherents do have qualms about accepting other ideas as "Truth"

 

Yes I think law originated from observation and rationality. It was attributed to god at some point. Perhaps to aid in people accepting it. You might escape the justice on earth but after you die you can't escape god. Makes sense.

Doesn't work on atheists of course.lol

Jefferson composed his own bible or NT. Said he was extracting the pearls from the dung! I kinda did the same thing once long ago. Ended up with what Aldous Huxley called the perennial philosophy or philosophia perenis.

Most of the problems that have plagued humanity would have been solved if each individual lived by the golden rule. But not enough will do that! It is not our nature to do it..Why?

The existence of the ego and its demand for gratification even or especially when it harms others. A trump hater cannot live by such a rule. Lol Too much pleasure to be found in hate.

Transcending the ego is the only path to Truth. It can be done within different religions. So the many paths pertain to this single thing.. A Buddhist, Hindu, Taoist, Christian or Jew can do it..Perhaps even a Muslim if a Sufi.

This is what I am certain of, this transcending the ego being fundamental. But realistically, damn near impossible. For to most of us, it is our identity and we are afraid to lose it.lol

 

The seven Noahide laws.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Noahide-Laws#:~:text=Noahide Laws, also called Noachian,consequently binding on all mankind.

No, there's no clear definition. You define "wrong place" as another god's domain, but you don't tell us if your basic premise is that these gods exist. There's no context to your statements. While Allah might take offense at something if he exists, he can't if he doesn't, so the definition of a wrong place with respect to Allah is entirely dependent on whether one believes he exists or not.

No, religious syncretism is not a thing of the past. It's a continuous, if sometimes difficult to detect, process. Of course it's not smooth and easy, changes always elicit resistance, but it's happening.

See Messianic Judaism, for instance.

 

Truth does not have a religion, and no religion has a monopoly on truth.

 

Come on - you are at least the 4th poster who answers the first question - but ignores the second question - more important question - "Does God Care" ? which most of the post is spent on - the "what is Truth" question being more of a sideline.

Perhaps the general lack of addressing this is due to my poor presentation .. either way - consider the second question - and it is addressed quite a bit in a number of posts that followed the OP.

 

Yes - but I think there are few "true" atheists out there who to to the other side of the spectrum to the point of Zero belief in Karma

but - even atheists can find justification for behaving well - so everyone is happy God - or no God ..and the various story that comes with it.

What an excellent quote - would have been quite politically incorrect at the time to speak that one too loudly - although there was a definite "anti Religious" fervor at the time - Consider France at the time - very anti Catholic - Off with its head. Not surprising given the recent history at the time .. Great Grandpa telling stories of what when on in the torture chambers - most often located in the basements of Churches.

The Church was not much into the Golden Rule back in the day - more like Anti - than Pro Christ - The Truth, The Way The Life

Self Interest and Greed definitely rule - but lets not dis the schadenfreude to much Is my favorite German word - and not sure there is an English equivalent that does justice like this word does. "The Pleasure you feel when bad things happen to other people" aka - Karma's a Bitch sometimes.

Is good to get over one'self - lose one's Self Importance as Don Juan would say in Carlos Castinada's books.

 

"Strangely enough, your "Love neighbor as self God" condemns all followers of other religions to eternal torture in hell, while the "petty and nasty" gives worshipers of other gods a chance to eternal life..".

You have not backed up your claim by posting a link to Noahide laws. No one is condemned to eternal torture in Judaism.

While this idea did not start with Christianity - Zoroastrianism was the first to suggest similar - it was whole heartedly adopted by Christianity.

The rest of your post I will look at later.

 

Yep I even tried peyote thanks to Carlos and his mentor, don't Juan,!

And like most after consuming the buttons, I had to throw up. But unlike that one character in the book I didn't terrorize a dog as I tried too pee on him once he hiked his leg on me. But I did see Mescalito.

Peyote and mushrooms didn't dissolve my ego though although it seemed as if it might have weakened it for a week..

But honestly I was just looking to trip mostly. And did! I would take nothing for the experience but never wanted to go there again! Did orange sunshine acid that same year and found out what Riders on the Storm tasted like. Lol But no religious experience...except a guy got out of the shower and wrapped a sheet around him and as he sit on the end of my military bunk, he morphed into the Buddha before turning into a monkey Buddha. Must have been because I was reading Alan watts at the time... Zen Buddhism. Lol. Ah to be young !! And straight off the farm where the only drug I had tried was moonshine.. Lol

The guy that gave me the peyote told me it would clean my act up. Another guy in the military. A hippee who got drafted. Thing is, I saw my ego as an act. As if I were an actor and the world was my stage.. So perhaps I did gain some insight.

 

Sounds like a child of the 60s - I caught the tail end of that - started HS in the late 70s - relatively big school round 500 in graduating class. Could count the number of kids on one hand who didn't smoke weed ... it is just what you did After the 2cnd class during the break - you would go to the smoking doors - where you would smoke - on school property - just outside the door. - would not be that unusual for a joint to be passed around - a few times teachers would happen to walk out - keep walking as if they had no sense of smell.

It was strange how normal it was - fast times at Ridgemont high - was natural stuff though - pot - mushrooms - not like meth and fentanyl.
Upsets me that - we can not focus resources on those - and leave the pot smokers alone.

 

I never claimed that Judaism condemns people to eternal torture. Eternal death is the penalty, both for Jews who don't follow the Judaic Law and gentiles who don't follow the Noahide laws.

My claim was that you don't really know what their own religions say about the gods you're talking about. Absent such knowledge, one can't even begin to ask questions about hypothetical reactions of hypothetical gods.

Seems to me that the point you're trying to make is that truth doesn't - or shouldn't - depend on the source. But truth is a human construct, just like races, ethnic groups, moral codes, laws, religions (I'm an atheist), poetry. Truth is thus highly subjective.

You believe in absolute truth. I don't.

 

The question is a combination of two; is there "truth" and is there "God". Clearly, the existence of a supreme deity cannot be incontrovertibly demonstrated. Thus, we can only speak of "God" out of either faith or personal revelation. These are subjective.
As for "truth", this is further based upon an objective reality similar to "God" and similarly subject to perception.
The two questions thus become one and the answer obvious.

 

Good thing I did not respond to the rest of your post - as you are having trouble staying on the page.

"Strangely enough, your "Love neighbor as self God" condemns all followers of other religions to eternal torture in hell, while the "petty and nasty" gives worshipers of other gods a chance to eternal life..".

Now why would I have made that assumption do ya think ? - and why are you some God "MY GOD" and is the God the Gentiles not the God of the Jews ?

I know what many religions say about the God's I speak of - Your claim against me is thus false and unsubstantiated and setting up a big fat straw man.

And - that is about as much as I felt inclined to deal with - so forgive my lack of response to the rest of your post.

Seems to me that the point you're trying to make is that truth doesn't - or shouldn't - depend on the source. But truth is a human construct, just like races, ethnic groups, moral codes, laws, religions (I'm an atheist), poetry. Truth is thus highly subjective.

You believe in absolute truth. I don't

 

"Truth" is a very fluid concept and it's impossible for anyone to *know* with absolute certainty what that means to any God/god/spiritual leader they believe in.

I heard someone say "Who cares who the messenger is, did you get the MESSAGE?" I think that expresses it very well.

 

So the question here is "Does God care" - and I take it your answer is "No"

 

1. I don't claim to speak for anyone's God/god/spiritual belief.
2. I don't understand why it matters one way or the other.

 

1) Good
2) Matters in what way ? It matters a whole lot to religious adherents who wish to make law based on religious belief.

 

My point is that we still have to live on this Earth together. What difference does it make who believes in what? Religion has done nothing but divide people further and it's sickening how everyone thinks theirs is the ONE AND TRUE belief system when nobody has any proof for any of it. How can so many people be behind a belief system (any) that is so openly hateful and divisive?

 

Ich un Du.

 

Indeed much division is caused by religious fervor - which is the main point of the question to be sure.

If God does not mind where the Truth Comes from - there is no justification for law on the basis of religious belief.