Autopsy Shows George Floyd Would Have Died Anyways

Right. So how are you going to protect all such vulnerable people from things which might kill them? Whether those things are strong-arming (of a type not normally fatal), or dogs chasing, or jump scares?

Do you have any clue at all of just how infinitely absurdist your proposition is?

 

I kinda do have a clue. I've been working for law enforcement in sworn and non sworn positions as well as private security for a little over three years. I've been through both the police academy and corrections academy and currently dual certified. I've been training in Muay Thai kickboxing and Brazilian Jujitsu for going on a year. What this cop did was grossly negligent, to the point that even the one of the two rookies that were with him voiced concern. Him kneeling on his neck is not only discouraged by the training I've received, but also directly contributed to his death.

 

Don’t grow old - problem solved.

 

This is assuming the doctor is not kneeling on your neck. Your reasoning, again, says that a mugger who shot you could argue that it was your own fault for being a smoker who could not outrun him.

The city of Milwaukee's lawyers very obviously don't agree with you, and I don't think their criminal trial juries will either

 

It was the law that made black people slaves, not the color of their skin. Jim Crow was the same. Had black people just been white there would have been no slavery [/satire]

 

I never said that what the cop did was perfection.

Until you're a jaded beat cop in streets which constantly produce this kind of behaviour (the perp's behaviour, that is), you cannot possible say what you wouldn't or wouldn't do when trying to protect yourself, your colleagues, and the general public from these dirtbags.

The point is that the impossible conditions mean that some are going to end up dead. Those who don't like that have two options: don't do crime, or take your chances in a 'war zone'.

 

OK. Thank you for that clarification.

 

The evidence indicates that the knee did not kill him. Thus no murder.

 

Is it okay to kill people with life-threatening health problems?
I don't think so.

 

To support the premise that "no murder or homicide was committed' you would have to be 100% certain that the science exonerates the officer in order to back it up.

That is NOT a call to 'judge a cop', it's a call questioning the issue of fact being used to support that premise.

While noting that I made a distinction between 'murder' and 'homocide', your comment is off point, per above.

 

Doesn't negate the comment to which you replied, ( repeated below ):

He brought police action on himself, but none of that deserves a death sentence.

 

It was clearly floyds fault for;
being on fent/meth
being in poor health
fighting the police
having heart failure

None of those things are the fault of the police.

 

If I swallow 3 cyanide pills in a 10 minute time delay capsule,

And as soon as I do, you pull out a gun and shoot me and kill me.

Did you murder me? Or was I going to die anyways?



( hint: you murdered me, and should go to prison for murder )

 

If the system truly worked as advertised (innocent unless and until proven guilty), the above would be false. It would be up to the prosecution to prove Chauvin actually committed a murder or homicide. Unfortunately the system often does not work that way and the accused is often presumed guilty and has to prove his/her innocence.

Having said that, we are not a court of law however and this is just a discussion forum where each poster has his/her own opinion. And for me there's no question Chauvin murdered Floyd.

 

I work in a prison full of gangsters and lifers and never knelt on anyone's neck, much less for an unecessary long period of time. You're seriously gonna excuse gross negligence and abuse because the cop had a bad career?

 

I'll go back to 1.

1. They are not holding the technique purposely after the idiot passes out. He's on a coctail of drugs so that can be a little hard to know for sure.

2. Being "unresponsive" does not mean he's "out" as he could just be asleep. You have no idea whether he's responsive or not because you were not in that situation. You're just quarterbacking.

3. That hold is taught because it is a safe hold. There are a lot of safe things you can do with people, but having a heart failure due to drug overdose doesn't make that thing "unsafe". Everything is unsafe when you're overdosing and fight the police again. here's an article and a video showing the exact topic; https://www.kare11.com/article/news...floyd/89-9f002e3f-972a-4410-86cb-50a1237fc496

4. At the point where chauvin had dealt with this idiot acting like a drugged out loon and fighting him the whole time he has no reason to expect floyd will not continue his well-documented violent behavior.

5. May I ask you what you know about effective wrist or arm holds? That's a pretty serious question and I have more than the average amount of experience with them.
5. A. They have every right to draw a weapon when they feel their lives or the lives of others are at risk, you questioning that without experience or being there is total quarterbacking. Are you aware that just because 2 rookies showed up on a crime scene does not mean they were partnered together? Cuz yeah, they do have an experienced guy working with them, let's keep those goal posts at rest.

As far as the rest goes I'm 100% willing to blow the lid off police improprieties. I will gladly show when they are not doing the job right. I will also remind people who have no problem making accusations that without context/experience it IS quarterbacking. A lot of people think they know how a job works until they actually try and perform said job.

 

He would have died anyway had he not been committing crimes. Correlation is not causation.

 

No one declared it a death sentence other than Floyd sympathizers.. He also hasn't been convicted of murder but again, he is being judged as such.. Since when do we convict without due process, Innocent until proven guilty be damned now?

 

You claim to be 100% willing to blow the lid off of police improprieties, but you crawfish about the fact that at a very minimum Chauvin failed to properly release the hold.

Furthermore you seem unwilling or unable to acknowledge the vastly unequal application of police enforcement against the former slaves of the US throughout US history that continues to this day when you post a statement like this as part of your argument in defense of Chauvin and the Minneapolis PD, "Let's begin with **** blm in all it's racist and hateful glory."

The fact that Floyd is by many measures an exceedingly poor poster victim of this history is of course relevant to this specific case, but you have failed to display that you have any awareness of the history of policing in the US toward black Americans that began by using the 13th amendment to criminalize being black. That amendment made involuntary servitude illegal except as punishment for a crime. Easy Peasy said the South, Thanks Yankees! Next thing ya know there are laws that effectively make it illegal to be black and hence is born the beginning of the largest per capita prison population of all nations on Earth.

So what is you position on this broader topic? Is it your opinion that there isn't an issue here?

***
1,2) BS. It's plain to see on the original cell phone video that he held the hold almost 4 minutes too long.

3) Yes, this is a mitigating factor and I completely agree that "Everything is unsafe when you're overdosing and fight the police."

Except that fighting the police these days in the US means anything other than complete submission to any and everything that they choose to demand of you. Did he actually fight the police? No. He was out of his mind and non-compliant. Not the same as throwing a punch, is it? As I said before, funding to have an emt unit show up would be an excellent step to reform public safety responses to a situation like this.

However, with respect to following up on my original question #3, I was asking about what other training is taught about this particular hold. So is it your response that the training is that all bets are off if the suspect is drunk or on drugs? Free for all in that case? I suspect that is not the formal training.

4) I fail to see how this response is applicable to discussing the potential lethality of the hold. I also fail to see how a cop is supposed to respond based on a suspect's history which is typically not available in real-time, so who's Monday morning quarterbacking....

The point being for #4 is that Chauvin's actions not only cost the city $27 million and cost him his job and will possibly cost him his freedom, but that he applied the hold incorrectly as it resulted in death of Floyd. Being a convicted felon is no excuse, and having the cocktail of drugs in his system does not excuse the fact that Chauvin maintained the hold about 4min longer than necessary.

Again, this crawfishing does not support that you will 100% call out the cops.

5) You can pretty much tell that they were assigned together because at the end of the original cell phone video we see Chauvin and Thao get into their suv together. In the other video we see that Lane and Keung are the first on the scene. So, again, is that a best practice? No, it is not. Not a matter of moving goal posts, just one of the reasons that Minneapolis shelled out $27 million because the twin cities have an inept police department that has resulted in $47 million total settlements over two cases: Floyd and Damond. And another $3.8 million in a nearby 2nd or 3rd class city for Castile.

You asserted that any hold can be deadly. My background is irrelevant to the fact that neck holds are far more likely to result in death or serious injury that arm holds. However, I will share that this is known to anyone that wrestled in high school.

 

1. You have no idea if Chauvin failed to release the hold, how to do the hold, just definite opinion that it was wrong.

There have not been anyone arrested by US police who were slaves. Stop, you're digging around for something that does not exist.

I should repeat **** BLM because I have no time for racist, marxist criminals. I should also repeat that no one arrested today was a slave, so let's keep the goal posts where they were.

1/2. You have no idea "how long" is too long. Or have you been trained on this particular hold? Have you been trained on any other chokes and restraints you'd like to mention?

3. Utter BS, people get away with attacking the police, screaming at them, disrespecting them, and threatening them all the time. EMT units ARE funded and available, but like all public services they are not hanging out on the corner waiting for felons to OD. If the person is still fighting OR dangerous in any way the hold stays until transport arrives. A medic or other officer can check on them, and they did, but staying safe from drugged out and violent felons is the key.

4. History of this violent felon? He was known to Chauvin already as...a violent felon. When they arrested him they ran his 28/29 and KNEW who he was, a violent 7 time felon on drugs and screaming since the very moment floyd realized this was his THIRD strike before going back to prison.

5. You're making assumptions based on cell pics? Seriously? You have no idea who was with whom or who was assigned to work together. That's grasping at straws.

I have to assume you recall that american wrestling has no submissions. positions and submissions are not the same thing, at least not at the Gracie school where I teach. They pay this money out for one reason and one reason only, to keep massive a****** people from rioting like the rodney king event. Emotions run amok and there is no consequences for when these lunatics try and destroy the society that fosters them, the city pays out like a coward giving in to a bully.

How about instead of blaming the police we put the blame where it was all along, on the criminal and his actions? I'm pretty sick of people who prey on society and breeze in and out of jail taking from it's citizens.

 

Right. I'm not claiming it as first degree murder.

I fully agree that our police forces deserve more compensation, more training, and in many cases need to have better support in terms of officers on duty. I'm not a "defund" guy.

But, there were multiple officers present and they all took part in a lethal assault of a guy who could not possiby be considered a continuing threat.

 

I don't accept your first sentence.

And, if you want to identify a "root cause" then do so.

 

In no way can you possibly make that case.

If the police had arrested Floyd and brought him before the courts for justice to be served, THAT would be a lesson concerning crime/drugs. If they had called for meical backup and Floyd had died in their care, that would have at least shown that the police are on the side of the people - that they give a damn about human life.

But, the police murdered him.

And, THAT is a lesson about the police, not about Floyd.

It's a lesson that says the police WILL kill you, regardless of proof you pose no threat, regardless of what they THINK you did or did not do, regardless of health and mental state at the time.

 

The police were already in contact with Floyd.

You are trying to imply that took some new unnecessary action instead of tending to your needs (whatever that means to you). But, very obviously it did not.

In general, I think you just aren't getting the picture here at all. The police aren't hired to protect you by killing defensless reprobates.

And, Floyd was NOT a threat to anyone - including you. He was face down on the ground with officers on top of him, unable to even BREATHE.

Killing him did NOT help you out with your "good people" problems.

 

So, you think the original cell phone video is fake? The one that for example shows Chauvin and Thao getting into the suv together at the end of the clip is real?