U.S. judge blocks enforcement of near-total abortion ban in Texas

YOUR imaginary deity KILLS the results of sex so why can't they do the same?

 

Abortion is a REPRODUCTIVE right!

FACTS matter!

 

They don't.

 

They do.

And thus ends this argument as we've just done the dance again. It all boils down to what you consider life. I don't care how small or developed you are. If you are going to grow into a human adult. You are a person. You are alive.

 

Thanks for ESTABLISHING that you have LOST your "argument" since you have provided NOTHING LEGITIMATE that supports your DENIAL of women's rights.

WITHOUT anything to SUPPORT your "argument" it is understandable WHY you have reached the END of your "argument".

Have a nice day!

 

I haven't lost anything. You've failed to prove to me that somehow something that is alive and would if nourished, grow into a full grown adult as something inconsequential enough to kill. So why should we dance around this argument for 50 pages where you say it's not alive and I reaffirm that it is?

You assumed I have a deity. If that's a nod to religion. I'm not religious. I'm going strictly off of science and biology. Something is. Even if it's inconvenient. It still exists. You can't nullify it or reduce it by giving it weird labels or shoo it away because it's small.

Your logic of "well it has a high mortality rate of 50 percent so therefore we should be allowed to kill it!" is faulty. We do not apply this logic to anything else anywhere. Like for example old people with comorbid getting covid. They have a high mortality rate. Should we just kill them?

I don't even know where you got that high mortality rate from either. Here in the United States, you have a very good chance of neither the baby or the mother dying from pregnancy. So where you got 50 percent is beyond me. Not that it would matter anyways. Again, at it's core that logic is faulty.

So that leaves us at an impasse. Women have rights. Killing isn't one of them.

Sorry.

 

Bovine excrement STRAWMAN FALSEHOOD!

NOWHERE have I posted anything of that nature.

For someone who is "NOT" religious WHY do you use so many EMOTIVE theist DEBUNKED disinformation arguments in your posts?

Where in SCIENCE and BIOLOGY are YOUR emotive "moral arguments" defined?

Where in SCIENCE and BIOLOGY do they support your BOGUS "abortion for convenience" allegation?

Another of YOUR bovine excrement STRAWMAN FALSEHOODS!

NOWHERE did I make that statement.

Thank you for ESTABLISHING that YOU have NOT bothered to do any actually RESEARCH into the SCIENCE and BIOLOGY of reproduction because if YOU had YOU would KNOW where that number comes from.

Great job flushing your position down the toilet again.

 

You posted this, wanna explain it then?
"YOU are the one DEMANDING that women CANNOT have abortions while IGNORING that your IMAGINARY deity is KILLING 50% of all ZEF's.
Since YOUR imaginary DEITY does NOT have a problem with KILLING all of those ZEF's WHY do YOU have a problem when a WOMAN exercises HER reproductive RIGHTS?
Why the HYPOCRITAL position?"

I'm not sure where you got this "god kills 50 percent of all fetus" stat. And if somehow this were true, would not excuse the evil practice of killing a fetus currently healthy and in development. Sorry. I mean we could just take this fallacy of logic and it expand it outwards, beyond pregnancy and just state that since nature kills 50 percent of all developing fetus's, then I can just murder anyone I want because they are inconvenient. I'm just doing what nature does? Is that your logic?

I mean it has to be because you are suggesting I'm a hypocrite for being against abortion but believing in "god" who kills 50 percent of all fetus's.

I've said countless of times. Just because something is small. Or doesn't resemble what your brain visually describes as a new born baby...doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You can try and pass it off because it's inconvenient using labels like "zef"...but it is what it is. It's human. It's alive. And if left to simply grow over time will eventually reach adult hood. That's what it is.

Unless you can prove to me that at conception the fetus doesn't have it's own unique DNA mapped out, it's own blood type as separate from the mother then I'm sorry. This conversation is over. I define that as a unique life form that while needing the mother for protection and nourishment, who that individual is, is already decided at creation. And I do not prescribe to the needing of characteristics being developed to tell me that is the case. Science already establishes that.

[/quote]

 

Just for kicks I'll ask you to show proof that anyone said a fetus wasn't alive.

I know, I won't see any proof of that whatsoever.

 

From the ABOVE it is EVIDENT that YOU have NEVER bothered to do ANY scientific RESEARCH for yourself.

At CONCEPTION you have TWO SETS of DNA, one belonging to EACH PARENT!

It takes TWO WEEKS after the CONCEPTION for a UNIQUE set of DNA to form.

That process alone is subject to a FAILURE rate.

Once that unique DNA is formed it can STILL FAIL in any number of ways.

https://www.webmd.com/baby/guide/pregnancy-miscarriage#1

YOUR fallacious BELIEF that ALL conceptions will result in the birth of a baby is NOT supported by either SCIENCE or BIOLOGY.

A ZEF is NOT a baby. After conception there is about a 50% chance that a ZEF will SURVIVE long enough to be BORN.

FURTHERMORE you use EMOTIVE terminology like CREATION and KILLING a BABY for CONVENIENCE which is exactly what THEISTS do.

When YOU use that kind of emotive terminology you EXPOSE yourself to having your deity's killing of ZEF's brought up. Is YOUR deity killing those ZEF's for CONVENIENCE too?

So YOUR fallacious claim to be using science and biology is EXPOSED by YOUR absence of the RELEVANT subject matter KNOWLEDGE.

Let me try another approach with this HYPOTHETICAL situation.

You are DIAGNOSED with an aggressive brain tumor that is growing rapidly. If it is NOT removed you will die. The ONLY chance of saving YOUR life is the REMOVAL of that brain tumor.

BUT you supported LEGISLATION that made it ILLEGAL to remove LIVING human TISSUE from a woman's body because it will DIE when you remove it.

Now that legislation MUST be applied EQUALLY to BOTH men and women OTHERWISE it will be rendered UNCONSTITUTIONAL on the basis of being DISCRIMINATORY.

So if a woman CANNOT remove a ZEF from HER body because it will die then YOU cannot remove a brain tumor from YOUR body because the tumor will die.

Yes, they are IDENTICAL in that they are BOTH human tissue and are both ALIVE and GROWING inside of another human being.

Are YOU willing to DIE needlessly because YOU gave up YOUR own RIGHT to BODILY AUTONOMY?

Remember this legislation will apply to ALL TRANSPLANTS because whatever human tissue you REMOVE it will DIE.

Millions of people are going to die NEEDLESSLY because YOU do NOT understand the concepts of Bodily Autonomy and Reproductive Rights.

A ZEF has NO rights!

The RIGHTS of the woman are PARAMOUNT.

It is HER body, NOT yours.

YOU do NOT get to DEMAND that others MUST have their body USED against their will.

That is IMMORAL as well as ILLEGAL.

Facts matter!

 

Great post but facts don't matter to those who wish to destroy women's right to their own body and make them nothing more than slaves...

 

Yes facts matter.

Since the rest of your post is so far removed and worth debating, I'm going to focus in on the DNA rubbish of two weeks...pay attention to week 3 as I think this is where you may be confused.

Week's 1 and 2 as stated. "not pregnant yet" That means the sperm and the egg have not joined. When that happens in week 3. The UNIQUE DNA (half from the mother and half from the father) combined to map out the entire future development of the baby.

https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/002398.htm

"Week 1 to 2

• The first week of pregnancy starts with the first day of a woman's menstrual period. She is not yet pregnant.
• During the end of the second week, an egg is released from an ovary. This is when you are most likely to conceive if you have unprotected intercourse.

Week 3

• During intercourse, sperm enters the vagina after the man ejaculates. The strongest sperm will travel through the cervix (the opening of the womb, or uterus), and into the fallopian tubes.
• A single sperm and the mother's egg cell meet in the fallopian tube. When the single sperm enters the egg, conception occurs. The combined sperm and egg is called a zygote.
• The zygote contains all of the genetic information (DNA) needed to become a baby. Half the DNA comes from the mother's egg and half from the father's sperm.
• The zygote spends the next few days traveling down the fallopian tube. During this time, it divides to form a ball of cells called a blastocyst.
• A blastocyst is made up of an inner group of cells with an outer shell.
• The inner group of cells will become the embryo. The embryo is what will develop into your baby.
• The outer group of cells will become structures, called membranes, which nourish and protect the embryo.

Week 4

• Once the blastocyst reaches the uterus, it buries itself in the uterine wall.
• At this point in the mother's menstrual cycle, the lining of the uterus is thick with blood and ready to support a baby.
• The blastocyst sticks tightly to the wall of the uterus and receives nourishment from the mother's blood."

This is now an unique individual. Separate from the mother in that it has foreign DNA, possibly a different blood type. Possibly a different gender. Different chromosomes. It is NOT "just" tissue. As "just tissue" left to develop would never grow into a unique individual, fully grown adult. Would it? Nor would any other benign thing you would want to compare it too.

This is where your argument falls apart when you try and compare it to other benign things like tissue or tumour or the like.

Got anything else or are we done?

 

Fifth circuit squashed the complaint. Xiden DOJ to beg the SCOTUS for another bite at the apple. outlook seems pretty clear. SCOTUS won't take an additional action again citing the ruling of the 5th circuit. Xiden DOJ orders more mops to clean up after all the heads exploding...

 

FINALLY you did some ACTUAL RESEARCH for YOURSELF!



YOU have just tacitly admitted that there is NO unique DNA at CONCEPTION which BLOWS away your theist "creation" bovine excrement allegation.

Yes WEEK 3 does involve the MAJOR step of IMPLANTATION in the WALL of the UTERUS.

However YOU need to research the term ECTOPIC pregnancy and FAILURE to IMPLANT.

Furthermore an IMPLANTED ZEF can STILL have DNA MUTATIONS that will PREVENT the ZEF from developing NORMALLY.

I have LEFT the most SIGNIFICANT aspect of your WEEK THREE epiphany to LAST.

By YOUR own ADMISSION above there is NO pregnancy UNTIL week 3 but YOU are DEMANDING that abortions MUST be terminated at WEEK SIX.

In essence YOU have NARROWED the WINDOW for an abortion to the point where it is effectively BANNED!

WHAT happens when the women discovers that she has an ECTOPIC pregnancy AFTER week SIX? Must she just DIE because YOU have REMOVED her BODILY AUTONOMY entirely at this stage of the pregnancy?

In summary you have taken the first step towards being able to participate in an INFORMED debate on this topic for which you are to be commended.

Now let's examine the IMPLICATIONS of FORCING a woman to bear not only an UNWANTED child but in some cases a HANDICAPED child.

WHO is going to PAY her MEDICAL COSTS for this UNWANTED pregnancy?

WHO is going to PAY for the MEDICAL COSTS of giving birth?

WHO is going to PAY for the CHILDCARE since YOU have FORCED her to INCREASE her cost of LIVING EXPENSES?

WHO is going to PAY for the ADDITIONAL SCHOOLS that will be NEEDED for all of these MILLIONS of additional UNWANTED children?

Lots of QUESTIONS for YOU to answer IF you are WILLING to actually debate the SCIENCE and the FACTS.

 

You left out the word “potentially”. It potentially will develop.

so let’s drill down on these right shall we?

Who has the greater right in the following scenarios

Ectopic pregnancy

severe perinatal depression (it is a thing and it is life threatening)

Rape of a mentally disabled woman

threat to life and well being of a family unit due to poverty

incest

Young (early teens) girl whose body will be competing with the foetus for nourishment

Partial miscarriage - heartbeat still detected

severe congenital abnormality (anencephaly)

severe genetic anomaly (Tay-Sachs disease)

Or this real life situation

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-47400819

 

Wow! Someone who finally realises that when we are talking of the sixth week in pregnancy it is actually only the fourth week of foetal development


Pick the human out of the top row alone

 

Didn't read the bill, did ya.

https://capitol.texas.gov/BillLookup/Text.aspx?LegSess=87R&Bill=SB8

"Sec. 171.204. PROHIBITED ABORTION OF UNBORN CHILD WITH DETECTABLE FETAL HEARTBEAT; EFFECT. (a) Except as provided by Section 171.205, a physician may not knowingly perform or induce an abortion on a pregnant woman if the physician detected a fetal heartbeat for the unborn child as required by Section 171.203 or failed to perform a test to detect a fetal heartbeat."

So when your "tissue" now has a beating heart. Which makes me wonder...how often does simple tissue suddenly start having it's own heart beat? And if it's just a part of the mother why would the mother need another heart? Is something wrong with her own heart? Do people typically grow their own second hearts? ooof. Doesn't sound very scientific. Can we just grow our own "second hearts" then whenever we want? What other inflictions can allow for one to grow a second heart?

Secondly, they calculate the length of pregnancy based on Gestational age. It would be totally possible for a woman to get her period in the time of the sperm being inside her before it joins with the egg, triggering her pregnancy.

Gestational age

Gestation is the period of time between conception and birth. During this time, the baby grows and develops inside the mother's womb.

Gestational age is the common term used during pregnancy to describe how far along the pregnancy is. It is measured in weeks, from the first day of the woman's last menstrual cycle to the current date. A normal pregnancy can range from 38 to 42 weeks.

Infants born before 37 weeks are considered premature. Infants born after 42 weeks are considered postmature.

Third; According to the law in Texas, it is still possible to get an abortion at any time due to a medical emergency.

"Sec. 171.205. EXCEPTION FOR MEDICAL EMERGENCY; RECORDS. (a) Section 171.204 does not apply if a physician believes a medical emergency exists that prevents compliance with this subchapter.
(b) A physician who performs or induces an abortion under circumstances described by Subsection (a)"

Subsection (a) details that an abortion can at any time be preformed if the physician felt it necessary based on the health of the fetus or the mother.

Sounds reasonable to me. Biology at no time other than the growth of another individual would allow a woman to develop a second heart out of the blue. Clearly that heart is great marker for the designation of another individual. And before you try for the "gotcha" of a tumor that can develop tissue such as hair, muscle, teeth or bone. It's never been the case where a tumor has developed a fully functional beating heart.

"but the woman didn't even know she was pregnant" Probably should hit up the morning after pill then or even better...denied access to sperm being allowed in there. They have all the power in the world to deny entry of sperm in the womb.

I suggest they be more responsible with that power.

Got anything else or are we finally done?

 

Congratulations!

You actually did some MORE research for yourself.



So NOW you are ONBOARD with the CONCEPT of the LIFE and/or HEALTH of the woman concerned when it comes to having an ABORTION!

Glad that we are making PROGRESS.

Now let's REVISIT these QUESTIONS.

Now let's examine the IMPLICATIONS of FORCING a woman to bear not only an UNWANTED child but in some cases a HANDICAPED child.

WHO is going to PAY her MEDICAL COSTS for this UNWANTED pregnancy?

WHO is going to PAY for the MEDICAL COSTS of giving birth?

WHO is going to PAY for the CHILDCARE since YOU have FORCED her to INCREASE her cost of LIVING EXPENSES?

WHO is going to PAY for the ADDITIONAL SCHOOLS that will be NEEDED for all of these MILLIONS of additional UNWANTED children?

 

It is very simple logic to assume because something is small or doesn't fit your visual representation of what a baby is that it isn't alive or a baby.

Another way to say this is to suggest that only things that look like this are a baby;


That's just not the case now is it? It always was a baby and it takes time to develop into this from 1 single cell.

 

The bill had nothing new that I was aware of. The government would be the answer to your questions. If she decides she's incompetent and not willing to own up to the responsibility of her actions. Then she can place the baby up for adoption.

We could use this same logic with immigration.

WHO is going to pay to feed people flooding across the border?
WHO is going to pay for the medical bills of people flooding the border?
WHO is going to pay someone train the people flooding across the border?

And yet we've elected to put more government cost and effort into people not born or created here. Adopting other nation's problems. Where I would much prefer that we spent our money on people born and made HERE.

And that's what this bill does. It gives these unwanted children a chance to be alive. That it wasn't denied to them simply because some irresponsible chick deemed them an inconvenience.

So with that. I think we are now at the stalemate we always were at several posts ago.

 

Ahhh! The common misperception of the so called “pro lifers” that every baby will be a perfect Gerber baby and that that is what they all look like at conception

 

That situation would likely be a strong argument for abortion based off of the Texas law I just stated to this thread.

/shrug.

Actually curious if you consider that a baby since it doesn't resemble your mind's perfect representation as to what a baby should look like?

 

Ah yet another person who has not done the math on adoption

There are over 600,000 abortions per year in the USA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_statistics_in_the_United_States

How many adoption places are there PER YEAR?

Now you obviously want all those babies to live - who pays?

 

It is up to the woman - she is the one who has to face the heartbreak of bearing a foetus that will not survive birth. Some women are able to do it - carry the foetus to term and then go through palliative care with the infant but many many women find they are so heartbroken and distraught that for their own health they must terminate

 

Your darling government. Just as it would under this nonsense.

https://www.immigrationreform.com/2019/08/22/immigration-levels-costs-biden-immigrationreform-com/