Special Master Chastises Trump's Legal Team With Now-Viral 'Cake' Comment

No, he doesn't need to review classified documents, but then you have to wonder why the search involved finding someone with clearance to view them. It's possible documents were mingled with classified documents.

 

No the DOJ will have to prove that they were classified. If DJT wants to raise a positive defense that he declassified them, the burden of proof is on him.

 

That's because you don't understand the process. Sometimes as a Prosecutor you actually have choices about which of several statutes to charge. Ant points out that there exists statutory language on stealing documents that does not discuss classified documents at all. That broad langauge includes all the unpermitted taking federal govt property including papers and documents.

There is elsewhere in the federal criminal code specific language dealing with the handling and care of classified documents and that is what Da Silva is pointing to. Different sections of law, designed to cover different behavior. They both may intersect here. If the DOJ wants, they can pick between the two, or charge both .

 

In time Trump may offer proof but for now time is on his side. Democrats are desperate to save a few seats in congress this November, and they fear Trump will run again in 2024. So good luck with November and 2024.

 

The assumption is that they are classified documents, as they are labelled as such. Trump has claimed he declassified them. It is up to him to prove his claim, not the other way around.

 

Do you know what the process is for a president to declassify documents? I don't but I'm pretty sure it doesn't include a lot of red tape since a president would need to bring home work and that would hamper a president's ability to get the job done.

 

That doesn't change the burden of proof, and that's what we're discussing.

 

All he needs is to show that he told someone about this standing order that no one seems to recall. The flunkies would've written that order down and presented it to him for signature. All he has to do is order it, but THEY have various processes they follow to put what he orders in to practice. He needs to provide a witness or 5. Preferably a writing as well.

 

Bahahah kinda like the NY AG dropped her bombshell CIVIL lawsuit because she can’t prove her case in a criminal trial? Bahahah good luck

 

But they’re not going to charge either. If they would have trump would already be in jail for defying a document subpoena

 

They were classified at the outset. Dearie stated he has 'prima facie' evidence that they were classified, and without Trump's evidence to the contrary, he said 'that will be the end of it' and he will 'rule', presumably not in Trump's favor.

His attorney's know that there is no where to go, they have to concede, or try and get Cannon to overrule Dearie, which would be extraordinary, given who Dearie is, and who Cannon isn't, someone with a long history have handling classified documents. If she does that, her reputation will tank, and will mark the decline of her judgeship as being a toady for the right.

 

Lol, That's a silly post. You must think that the brains at the highest echelons of the DOJ, function very differently from other human brains and that human decision-making is a linear predictable process dependent on an unvariable preset set of data, if a collection of lawyers engage in it.

 

The classification issue is the issue before Dearie. The fact that classification is irrelevant to a 793 and 1519 indictment, has no bearing on the task before the Special Master.

Apparently you haven't been able to make the distinction.

 

Although I'm no lawyer, the law here as I understand it:

"Personal items" are not the issue in the lawsuit, only items in which a 'privilege' can be established. However, as the DOJ pointed out in their appeal to the 11th circuit, there cannot be any such 'privilege' issues because privilege goes to the incumbent president, not Trump, who is a private citizen. If there were atty client docs, Trump had over a year to remove them so one wonders why they weren't removed? But, there could be atty client docs, and I believe the filter crew of the DOJ removed them, already, which they have stated in their appeal. Those are about all that Dearie could sort from the 11k docs.

In a warrant, if there are personal items (other than atty/client) mixed in with the gov docs, the DOJ can keep those until after a trial. The personal items contribute to establishing facts of possessory interest (i.e., degree of unlawful retention) of the gov docs due to the context of their location with respect to the docs, which means that Trump cannot retrieve those, at least until the DOJ deems they no longer need them ( noting that they did return the passports, and/or such as they decide not to prosecute, or of they do, they will return the items after the trial ).

He has decided that he has only purpose for being their if Trump can provide evidence he declassified the docs.

However, the DOJ has appealed to the 11th circuit, because even if Trump did provide evidence of declassification, he still has no right to the documents, especially if a DNI assesses there are serious damages to the US if they are returned to a civilian. I'm sure Dearie is aware of this and will await the ruling of the 11th circuit, and if they don't rule in the DOJ's favor, then the ruling of the SCOTUS.

 

Do you understand what is occurring?

Trump has claimed that he declassified the docs.

Dearie asked for proof of declassification. He needs that information before he can proceed with sorting documents.

Trump refuses to give that data to Dearie under the ruse that 'it would hurt his defense if he is prosecuted' .

Dearie states 'you can't have your cake and eat it, too'. That Trump might be indicted has no bearing on the task before him, so either provide evidence or Dearie will rule ( presumably not in Trump's favor).


Is there anything about this you do not understand?

 

Where did you get that from?

Ruse?
Thats no ruse.
If you ever litigated a complicated claim in court you would know this.

Not a thing

Its not the duty of the master of the court to try the case, and even if they were classified, that is not a ringer for guilty verdict, there are far too many legal variables that must be weighed, (in the real world).

 

Wrong. The onus is on those who are suing, to prove their claims.

What is their claim? That Trump 'declassified' and because of that fact, he can keep the docs.

Actually, he can't, so that issue hasn't been dealt with. What I think is happening is Dearie is calling Trump's bluff, he knows he's suit is a ruse to delay.

The only thing that matters is justice, not right or left politics.

the president has no right to government documents, per PRA.

 

Wrong burden goes back and forth during a hearing.

Thats not his job and its not what he did. His statements were instructional. At least from what I h ave heard so far.

We have democrat and republica supreme court justices, good luck getting a clean decision on anything

 

Government employees aren't known for their effiency.

 

The state always has the burden of proof.

 

The state has the burden of proof. They need to prove Trump didn't declassify the documents. If an oral statement is needed to declassify information well then the DOJ needs to question any government employees who was involved.

 

When not doing that job means they committed a felony by removing things from their proper place? Lol ok.

 

They don't need to prove that Trump didn't declassify the documents.

The documents are classified. The only organization with the authority to make that determination, says they are classified. That is all the evidence that is needed to show that they are classified.

If Trump is claiming that they he declassified them, then that burden is on him.

This isn't the same as the prosecution having to prove their case. The only evidence required to show that the documents are classified, is the government saying that they are classified.

 

Not sure what you use to meter that red tape, but there is most certainly a paper that includes all logs of people accessing the info.

Years ago it was called "The Orange Book", no pun intended.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computer_System_Evaluation_Criteria

 

It's the government we're talking about and nothing is ever that simple.