13% of Taxpayers pay 72% of the tax burden

Discussion in 'Budget & Taxes' started by sec, Apr 15, 2014.

  1. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    US farmers did ok.

    The most recent numbers give America about $19 bil surplus in that sector.

    However before NAFTA we has the same $19 bil surplus in manufacturing.

    But now we have a $188 bil deficit.

    So American workers were big losers under NAFTA just as Ross Perot predicted.
     
  2. HB Surfer

    HB Surfer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are completely out of touch with reality. 99.5% of us in this bracket don't make $100 Million a year.
     
  3. bobov

    bobov New Member

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    The purpose of taxes is to raise money for the government, NOT to impose social leveling schemes. Politicians have used taxes for decades to divide and conquer the people. Social "engineering" is not what it's supposed to be about, but we've been suckered into the idea that taxes are all about factional power and gratifying people's resentments. That does deep harm to the country and should be resisted.

    I'm not rich, and I don't care. I don't live each day gnashing my teeth in an envious rage because somebody has more money than me. The real reason I'm not rich is that I've never done anything to earn it. But our tax policies are ego-driven. Most people can't admit they're not rich because they haven't done much. Their bruised egos make them say they were cheated somehow, so taxes should be used to get "justice," i.e., unearned income. The irony is that it's these jealous connivers who are obsessed with getting as much as they can, any way they can; they're the ones who want to live high without doing much, if they can find a way to swing it. They have the greedy devious characters they attribute to the rich. Since these egotistical grifters are more numerous, politicians cater to them. It's a disaster for the country.
     
  4. Natural Evidence

    Natural Evidence Member Past Donor

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    By the way, how far percentage of the income for the 13% taxpayer?
     
  5. expatriate

    expatriate Banned

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    Not only do I not know you're right, you don't KNOW it either. The fact that you ignorantly hold to beliefs without proof is telling. It highlights your bigotry nicely.
     
  6. expatriate

    expatriate Banned

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    no insult intended. I come from a very wealthy family. the "value" that rich people "trade" for amongst one another in their own private marketplace allows them to continue to move leaps and bounds ahead of those without access to that marketplace. My siblings all have worked hard, no doubt, and we've all worked smart as well... and we have continued to benefit disproportionately because we're all plugged into that "marketplace" that my grandparents and parents got us access to. That's the way it works.
     
  7. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    Manufacturing jobs have been declining worldwide since the 1990's, not just the U.S while productivity has increased. In essence, technology has been the culprit of our manufacturing job losses, not China or Mexico. If that was the case, we should have seen net manufacturing job growth in those countries respectively. Instead, China has lost manufacturing jobs while Mexico has a flat, or zero net manufacturing job loss/gain.


    In addition, having a net import may be more beneficial because outher countries will use their comparative advantage to produce and sell their products cheaper than if those same products were produced where there was no comparative advantage. In other words, our economy has changed from a purely agricultural economy to an industrial to a service oriented economy.

    And with that change cam more imports and more exports which allowed our economy to grow in the 1980's, 90's and early 2000's. Now, the culprit is not imports, but household debt that is driving the purchasing power down. Without NAFTA, the recession would have happened during the Clinton era and that would not have been a good thing for the economy.
     
  8. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    Manufacturing has not declined in china.

    It has exploded.

    And those jobs are powering the Chinese economy the way manufacturing used to power ours.
     
  9. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    No it has not. Read this

    Or read this.
    .
     
  10. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    I don't claim to know it all.

    But I would like to see your source before commenting on the claim that manufacturing in china or the world as a whole is declining.

    That simply cannot be possible.
     
  11. mikezila

    mikezila New Member

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    and breathing was deductible along with everything else under the sun that lead to it.
     
  12. Flintc

    Flintc New Member

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    Yes, they do. So I asked, how do they balance their budgets?
     
  13. LiberalHypocrisy

    LiberalHypocrisy New Member

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    The keyword you used is "day trading" and that's where they went wrong. As with virtually any occupation, one cannot simply jump headfirst into the market and expect to float. It takes an understanding of market trends, human psychology, current events and the ability to foresee their effects. Once you understand that the market is all about psychology, then you will turn a profit.
     
  14. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    There use to be a report on worldwide manufacturing jobs published every year from about 1993 to 2006. It was with Alliance Capital, LLC. until they were bought out in 2006 and the report has ceased publication.

    But the links I have provided proves that worldwide manufacturing has declined and technology has been a major factor in that decline.
     
  15. Flintc

    Flintc New Member

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    The part that says "let's punish everyone else instead." The American middle class is evaporating away, with a few becoming enormously rich, and the rest becoming increasingly poor. If you think this trend is positive, just say so.
     
  16. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    I don't know.

    Do you have any ideas?
     
  17. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    I'm calling bullsh*t on this comment for 2 reasons:

    1) First of all, investing is not like gambling in the sense that "the house" always wins. Hollywood loves fooling useful idiots into believing that investing is a zero sum game and that for every winner, there must be a loser. That is simply not true. A group of people investing their money wisely create good services and can make a profit without anyone else losing money.

    2) If you have done taxes for 40 people who day trade, and not a single one made money, then your clients are total morons. Statistically speaking, some of those people should have been successful - unless they are all total morons who were engaging in day trading irresponsibly. If you had 40 monkey throw darts at the Wall Street Journal, a couple will find their way to pick some winners.
     
  18. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    Most trading done now is done with computers who have sophisticated programs that maximize the earnings per share, DOA, DOE, and other figures to determine buy or sell. The account managers at the major investment firms simply made an educated guess based on the available data. And the day trader does the same, just not as sophisticated. In fact, day trading is much like gambling these days given the available information whereas the account managers are the "professional gamblers."

    BTW, the analogy of of investing to gambling has been used for the past 7 decades in business and investment books as an explanation on how the market works.
     
  19. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    If there is only one nation left standing after manufacturing declines I want it to be America.

    We have been losing more jobs to china than to robots.
     
  20. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    This is an incredibly moronic cliché oft-repeated by people with zero understanding of economics. People like you are what liberals call "useful idiots." There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that "the middle class is evaporating away."

    Over the long term, the standard of living of the average American keeps going up and up and up. In America, you can be 50 pounds overweight, have a roof over your head, hot and cold running water, an HDTV, cell phone, access to health care and access to education and still be called "poor." Only useful idiots think that this is a problem.
     
  21. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    How can you be successful when there are computer systems in NY, Hong Kong and other places that will beat you to the purchase. All people involved in the stock market are looking at the same data and yet, not all the people will act on that data the same way, but computers can. And the average individual investor uses euphoric, emotional decisions to invest most of the time. Some want high dividend payouts, some want stability, some want increasing price per share, and so forth. But with day traders who do invest in the short term, don't fare well because they have imperfect information while trying to make a decision based on perfect payouts.
     
  22. Flintc

    Flintc New Member

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    I suppose we'd know more if we peeked at their budgets. For one thing, they have even more progressive tax structures than the US. For another, most of them do not have any military. For another thing, ALL of them have less expensive health care than the US.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Or alternatively, oft-repeated by actual practicing economists who are armed with the facts. Pick one.
     
  23. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    If we did t adopt socialized medicine then healthcare would not part the budget.

    Just another reason I don't like obanpmacare.

    As for our military spending I think we need a strong military for nation defense.

    But at the same time I understand that we can't afford as much defense as I want.

    Not can we afford as much welfare state as others want either.
     
  24. Flintc

    Flintc New Member

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    But of course many of these nations DO have socialized medicine, and STILL balance their budgets. Another way they do it is by NOT handing out billions to nearly every other nation on the planet.

    The problem with "a strong national defense" is, who are we actually defending the nation against? Do you seriously believe that Iraq or Afghanistan or Vietnam presented a military threat to the US? If you really want more defense, you need to identify a threat to be defended against. Since I was born, there has not been one single US military adventure that could remotely be considered "defense".
     
  25. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    Try. Of having a strong military Nd you will find out the hard way who is out to get us.

    And with no military advantage over the enemy a lot of American soldiers are going to pay for your frugalness with their blood.
     

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