2 armed suspects shot outside Mohammed art event in Texas >Read mod warning in OP<

Let's call them what they are: cowards.

Suicide bombers are cowards. Men who hide behind women and children are cowards. Islamic fundamentalists seem to be cowards, that seems to be the one element they all have in common.

 

what about drone controllers? Cowards?

 

Which is no way comparable to actually delivering your neighbor to the German death machine... But you can keep on playing your silly game of moral relativism.

 

How is it not? If you provide the funds or technology for death camps, that's pretty much on the same level as delivering your neighbor to one. It may not have the same immediate impact on you emotionally, but it's equally as destructive, if not more so.

I'm not suggesting we're the only country that profited from the Nazies, but the fact that we did means that we can't pretend to be completely clean.

 

If you can prove that IBM sold equipment SPECIFICALY to kill jews you would have a point. But selling office supplies and equipment prior to the entry into the war of the USA can't be construed in any way shapes or form as being complicit in the extermination of the european jews. Hell, the nazi used pens and pencils too, are you blaming those company for the holocaust too?

The french denounced and rounded up their jews with a smile on their face and a song in their hearts. Hell, if Petain and Laval had come to power a year earlier the french would have probably sided with Germany or at best staid neutral.

 

Antisemitism was fairly common in Europe, and it wasn't exactly unknown here either. Ironically, a lot of the motivation behind Britain's movement of Jews to Palestine was a matter of getting Jews away from them. It was a strange alignment of both Zionist and antisemitic interests, inadvertently.

America wasn't exactly welcoming to a lot of Jews during the war either. The SS St. Louis incident comes to mind.

The Vichy government of France was surely complicit in the Holocaust, but I haven't seen any evidence that France was complicit before the Nazi occupation. If you have any evidence of that, feel free to share.

As far as IBM's guilt goes, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust

 

So instead of contesting his marriage at age 6 or him having sex with her at 8, or contesting him being an insane fruitloop that thinks the Angel Gabriel appeared to him and talked to him telling him what to write, or him having 13 wives, or Aisha killing him for raping her starting at age 8; your response is to make up a lie about "googling my source" as if you had even a single iota of a clue about where all that common information comes from? Really? Wow. And now you think there is a Cabal conspiring to make up stories about this guy and that you somehow caught the Cabal changing the age from 8 to 9? Wow. You need help. But it's not my job so I would rather just ignore your posts from now on. Have a good life.

 

Frances shipped her jews even where they weren't occupied. Heidrich even joked about it.

http://www.france24.com/en/20120723-francois-hollande-france-role-holocaust-guilt-mitterrand-jews-second-world-war-nazis

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/4641117/France-responsible-for-holocaust-deportations-court-rules.html

France deported 75,000 jews to death camp. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_deportations_of_French_Jews_to_death_camps

"La Milice" was considered worst then the gestapo and beside hunting down the communist and resistance they also had the job of rounding up the jews under Pierre Laval command. "La gendarmerie" also had its share of collaborator. A nice depiction of the period can be seen on Netflix in the French film: "L'armee des ombres" about the resistance and how the jews were treated in Vichy France.

As for your link to wiki, nowhere in there is it proven that IBM was even remotely responsible for anything in regard to the holocaust. They sold office equipment, the same equipment that was sold to everybody else. Are you going to procecute the pen and pencil maker too? How about the paper mill who produced the sheet and punch card?
How silly do you want to get in trying to defend your position. It would be easier to just admit that you don't have sufficient knowledge on the role that France played in the holocaust and just letting go at that...

 

You'll notice if you read my posts closer that I had no argument with you that Vichy France was complicit in the Holocaust. Everything you've cited details what the Vichy government did.

I was asking if you had any evidence of France being complicit before the occupation.

It was widely known that the Nazies had been rounding up dissidents, Jews, Gypsies, and many other groups in the 30s. While the outside world didn't know the full extent of the camps, it was pretty obvious what IBM's technology was used for. They weren't oblivious to how it was being used.

The entry specifically mentions how Dehomag, a subsidiary of IBM had a direct relationship with the Nazi regime for the purposes of identifying ethnic groups. That's culpable beyond a doubt.

 

Yeah well... if you must. I doubt the position of women in groups like the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is not exactly pretty as well. It all comes down to that women were made from a spare part of men, and so 2nd class according to Christian fundamentalists, this also goes hand in hand that their "role" is making babies and work in the kitchen. This entire thing about a set "role" for women is also the custom for orthodox Jews. And face it,.. this making women play a role means they aint aloud do things just like saudi women and driving cars.

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Vichy France may not be occupied by some army. They were held at gun point with the message that you do what we say or you die. It's leaves you with no option. Same thing that Jews cooperated with their own genocide, by making Jewish Council of Elders ... making lists who is a Jew and is ready for some transportation one way ticket.

 

Hogwash...The only reason the saudi's are fighting is for their own self imposed dictatorship can survive. It's a Kingdom they are trying to preserve, not because of their archaic belief in islam.

Iran (terrorist organization that throws people off roof tops and support Lebanese Shiite militants of Hezbollah (which Iran helped found in the 1980s) and Palestinian terrorist groups like Hamas, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command, is hardly fighting for their stance against ISIS, but mainly FOR their archaic belief that their cult is better than ISIS's cult.(power struggle, and NOT for their people, only their theocratic control, which is their own interpretation of islam.)

Afghanistan- again fighting for their own interpretation of their archaic belief against the taliban, who are too, strict sharia law abiders. Lost cause, let it go.

Indonesia - again, power struggle for their interpretation, not about the people, but all about which cartoon character they interpret to be their prophet.


NONE of these countries care 2 cents for their people or freedom for their people. All they care about is which interpretation of lala they want all heads to bow too...Don't kid yourself!


I'd be glad to send weapons to Israel to fight for their survival. I'd send weapons to countries where muslims want to breed like rats so they can infiltrate their governments so they can overthrow democratic societies. They only desire to take them backwards into sharia law. It's the stupidest, dumbest cult on the face of the earth. Destruction is their finest collection of work. However, they are quite good at it, I might add!

 

Again that is totally irrelevant and quite a cop out from you.
Once they had the opportunity, the french DID collaborate happily to the deportation of their Jews... 75,000 of them. They acknowledge that fact. I don't know why you think your opinion matters when France says they did it!

IBM sold business equipment nothing more nothing less, just like every other company selling business equipment they don't have a say or a responsibility on how and for what it is used. You are grasping at straw here. And let me remind you that IBM as won every case that were brought against them over the years exactly because there isn't any link that can be made between selling business equipment and its use thereafter.

Give it a rest and go back to the library to read on this subject a little more.

 

Petain and Laval were willing collaborators. The Milice were willing participant and so did a big part of the Gendarmerie. Jews were willingly denounced by their neighbors. France has a history of Anti-Semitism and jewish persecution older than Germany. Like the germans, a big part of their military and government still considered the jews responsible for the defeat of 1870 (see the Dreyfus affair).

 

How is it hogwash when I say the saudi's are fighting terrorism, while you agree they are fighting terrorism?

And the west fights those terrorist to once again install puppet states that sell their natural resources to them in a cheap way. They don't care 2 cents for those people. If it takes the removal of an elected government, to get a puppet government who massacres 10.000's people a year to in the case of Indonesia a kewl million...than so be it. And because of that the Christian Judean west is the biggest support of terrorism.

 

And so were the Jews on Jewish Council of Elders. They collaborated fully find and seek all the Jews for the nazi's so they could be massacred.

 

NO they were not. What are you going to post next, an excerpt from the Protocoles?

Get the (*)(*)(*)(*) out of here with your silly nonsense. The Nazi didn't need anyone to told them who were a jew or not since by law people had to themselve proved they were of germanic descent (read the Nuremberg race law). The Wansee conference then specified up to which degree they were going to be categorized as jews for those of mixed blood. 1st and second degree jews were condemn from the get go. Those of germanic blood who were spouse of Jews had the choice of renouncing their marriage or going to the camp with their spouse. Second degree jewish children of living germanic parent (Mishling) were considered germans if they didn't look or act jewish else they were considered jews and sent to the camp.

So you see no need for that silly nonsense that you've been posting since they had all the paperwork already to determine who was a jew or not.

 

Jay-walking, driving 5 miles over the speed limit, etc...

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No, that is what the average Joe thinks of the Prophet.

 

So what? Are former Americans automatically knowledgable about George Washington?

 

Yes they did. Wikipedia states:
In occupied Europe, the Nazis entrusted Jewish officials with the task of making such lists of Jews along with information about the property they owned. The Judenräte also directed the Jewish police to assist the Germans in catching Jews and loading them onto transport trains leaving for Nazi concentration camps.

Only when they wanted to work for the government.

 

That's a fair point, and obviously that depends on the individual.

Fawstin says he's read (and re-read) the Qur'an, numerous books on Islam and Muhammad, and that he felt an obligation to know them well before he started commenting on them. If someone was to comment on George Washington, this is the least I would expect of them - read his bio, his role in American history, his contemporaries' views of him, etc., etc.

 

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but they do have traffic laws in most large Islamic cities, right?

 

And again, I haven't suggested that they didn't do it. You seem to be unable to understand that the Nazies essentially ran the Vichy government. That doesn't erase the fact that some French were willing collaborators, but it does show that many others were only following orders under duress. There was a significant French Resistance as well.

You seem to be suggesting that the French would have sent Jews to their deaths without Nazi control, but there is no evidence of that. That was what I was debating with you, but you apparently view any disagreement as a "cop out."

The only cases I'm aware of were the ones mentioned in the wiki link.

One was dropped for reasons explained in the link. It had nothing to do with the viability of the case but rather a concern about affecting certain conciliatory payments that IBM was voluntarily paying out to Holocaust victims.

The other was dismissed because of the expiration of a statute of limitations.

So, in other words, IBM has never truly faced legal action from a persistent source. Their German division's payments seem to be an admission of guilt, however.

 

Because the Saudi's are not fighting terrorism..They are fighting for their power...2 distinct different things.

Your second point id fair to an extent. Yes, we have supported puppet regimes. Yes, we trade with those regimes. I wouldn't go as far to say that we don't care about the people, after all we provide more human aid throughout the world to these countries than all other countries combined. Elected gov'ts in that part of the world is bought and rigged and you know it. Saddam got like 100% of the vote, please....No one in a true democracy gets 100% of the vote, c'mon....The Christian Judeo West, IS NOT a gov't run regime. We are not a theocracy. Please give me something better than this. i mean, really?