2 shot, 1 dead in Chaz

There were four questions, not one.

I don't live in Seattle, so what they do is not my business. That said, if I did live there, I would be pissed off the authorities ceded control of part of my city to anyone.

Now, I don't know at exactly what point I would reclaim the area, by force if necessary, but I would not talk to them about anything other than bringing a peaceful end to their "occupation."

 

Lock them all in the Thunderdome until no one is left to come out. Let the rats and coyote's clean up the mess.

 

I agree. I'd announce that within a few days we will wall off the whole thing. Anyone who doesn't want to stay will be able to leave until we start building the wall. After then, if you want to leave, which means entry into the USA, well, you're going to have to go through proper immigration channels just like everyone else.

 

I pointed out a fact.

You have nothing to cast doubt on that, so you resort to attacks on me personally.

SOP for you?

 

The video is selectively picking minor events that do not come from the time of the mayor's comments.

For example, there is video that clearly shows the police precinct as unoccupied by police at a time when the mayor points out that the police chief could visit the precinct.

Yours is typical video schlock - not even slightly intended to convey the truth.

The protest very clearly got more demanding over time. You have NOTHING to indicate that the mayor's comments didn't comport with the situation at the time she made those particular statements.


Please do better than projecting fake news in an attempt to do no more than attack an elected leader.

 

If you want an answer, you're going to have to restate your question.

Nobody is going to go back through your posts to figure out what it is that is that you think is so critical for you to know.

 

They setup a zone and claimed it as an autonomous zone. Now that they need police help, they shouldn't get it. I don't know what is so hard to understand about autonomous. I even shared the definition. You're having a hard time with this.

 

Not just "now".

They ALWAYS believed that they need police help!!! They never STOPPED believing that policing is important.

There isn't anyone in America who believes we don't need polilcing.

What is being protested is the methods used by what we have in the way of policing TODAY in many (not all) areas.

You need to listen to what people have been saying - for the last 100 years, or whatever.

 

No, their message is that they wanted NO outside government, that's what autonomous means. They HATE the police. Why are you so determined to defend them? Let them handle their own problems. They are on their own.

 

At best the signals have been mixed. It has been all the way from no police with neighborhoods picking up the function to reforming. There is no consensus.

 

I think the police should just let this play out. The Democrat experiment, that is.....

 

It mike make a "fun" book someday, or maybe a movie. Bring back Chevy Chase and Bill Murray! Throw in a little Adam Sandler.

 

Again, you just aren't bothering to listen.

They have issues with the police we have TODAY. That does NOT mean they want no policing. Remember that protestors in Minniapolis were among the very first to call for police help. (The police refused.)

The name for this site no longer includes the term "autonomous" - something that changed early on. At that time, it was chosen to mean autonomous wrt the portion of the city policed by the official police force.

The problems they point to have traction across the free world, not just in Seattle. They are very real issues.

Ignoring those issues is just plain not acceptable.

 

I agree except there are people living there who do not want to be part of this grand experiment.

 

You are not going to get quality policeman with the conditions you are asking for. A policeman will likely have contact with a thousand or thousands of civilians each year. Under all sorts of conditions. Mistakes will be made and if they are insisting on the death penalty when he makes a mistake, no person in his right mind will take the job.

The policeman said he was practically knocked senseless by Brooks and Brooks was fleeing with a potentially deadly weapon. The policeman reacted in seconds. The people doing the review have hours to determine what was a reasonable response under the circumstances. The charge carries the death penalty. It will be interesting to hear what the review board has to say.

 

Yes - that is certainly the case.

There are problems that point to major structural defects. Protests are about problems. We can ask protestors for an understanding of problems.

But, asking random protestors for solutions or whether they believe there is a consensus on a way forward doesn't make any sense to me. That's not what protest does.

My bet is that we'll see cities continuing to try different approaches, hopefully taking into account the issues at the heard of the protests.

 

It's a protest.

It isn't a "grand experiment".

They are going to want to continue to the point where the issues they are protesting are given serioius consideration.

And, those living in that area have LONG been frustrated by the fact that there is a precinct right there, yet that has not resulted in safety even outside the doors of the precinct.

I don't believe anyone is satisfied by any version of what has been happening in that area - an area that is not especially poor, is reasonably racially diverse, has a reasonably active LGBTQ presence,has well known and interesting businesses, has destination night spots, etc.

 

Call it whatever you want, but there are people there who do not like it.

 

Any updates?

The thread is so derailed it doesn't appear that the subject is being discussed at all anymore.

 

Mariame Kaba wants to abolish the police.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abolish-defund-police.html

 

And as our neocon/libertarian/tea party/sovereign citizen/oather folk dance with glee chanting "told ya so"....let's just put this all perspective. Murder equal investigation...if these "chaz" folk resist such, eventually the national guard will be called in to clear things up. This should be an example to all the extreme and fringe right wing folk who want to set up similar towns....eventually, this isn't Italy with the Vatican.

 

"It"?

What is it that you want to call "it"?

And, what makes you think your "it" is properly singular?

Do you think those porotesting are doing so without there being any "it" for them to not like?

 

I don't care what you call it. There are people there who do not like it. They did not pay their taxes and establish roots for all these years for the kind of environment which has been imposed on them without them having any say whatsoever.

 

She has some really good points, dosn't she.

The idea that more rules for existing police forces will solve this is really a pretty silly notion.

My own thoughts on this are somewhat similar. What we have today was trained as we train today (both officially and through superior partners in the field), in too many cases has little to no connection with or trust/respect from the communities they police, is rife with white supremacy, knows full well that the legal system will save them when they decide to kill someone, etc.

In many (but undoubtedly not all) cases, my bet is that the only way to fix that is to fire every last policeman and police force official who has been trained that way.

Note that even YOUR radical columnist does not call for zero police forever. But, we could be WAY better off with an entirely different kind of poicing - a kind that the community being policed actually trusts!

 

People on all sides have to do better than saying they don't like "it".

The problem with "it" is that we can't agree and enact solutions to "it".