5 dead, 16 hospitalized in mass shooting at Highland Park 4th of July parade, shooter being sought

No one saw him doing the shooting so how would anyone recognise him as a murderer; no clear images were available. His dad did not buy him all 5 guns

 

This is disinformation. If a dealer ceases operations 4473s are sent to the NTC.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/discontinue-being-federal-firearms-licensee-ffl

Let’s try and stick to facts. I know it’s hard when you have an agenda but please try.

 

So there is a national register. Why not extend it to include all new gun sales

Also can you not see a problem here. What defines a closed business? Being shut for two months?, shut for three months? Etc

 

No. It’s just 4473’s that exist in another location as opposed to the FFL location. It is not a registry.

Firearm retailers must have a Federal Firearms License. If a retailer goes out of business at a location and terminates their FFL the records go to the NTC. If the retailer retains the FFL for the purpose of smithing, manufacturing or re-opening a different location they must keep all 4473’s affiliated with that FFL until that license is relinquished.

If a retailer takes a 3 month vacation and closes the shop he still has the FFL and must retain the records. No different than being closed overnight.

It’s all very simple and straightforward and works the way it is supposed to. It only appears to be problematic to people who are misinformed.

 

Of course it is:

 

He had to get to and from the roof with those weapons, somebody could have seen. That's the problem with these stupid laws that do nothing, there's no promise that they're effective and they guarantee to give your rights away to a gov that will abuse them.

 

You are deliberately missing the point. If that gun shop owner that Crimo bought the gun from was not contactable Crimo would not have been identified. It's no point the retailer having the records if no one else can access them

 

Weapons? He only had one weapon when on the roof. No one saw him as a threat.

CCTV captured him dropping the gun. Another useful tool that many Americans are against

 

How do you know that he only had one on the roof?

Who told you Americans don't have cameras on every corner? They are not security, they simply record things.

 

Sigh. If the gun shop owner had gone out of business the 4473 linking the perp to the firearm would be sitting at the NTC instead of a safe at a gun shop. The physical location of the record is irrelevant. When the serial number trail that leads from the manufacturer to the wholesaler to the retailer (gun shop) is followed it leads to the 4473 no matter where it is stored. In this case if the shop was out of business the serial number would have led to the out of business FFL and then to the NTC where that record now resides. Nothing changes except there is one more crumb in the trail from the manufacturer to the original purchaser.

Please educate yourself on this subject before pontificating on things you clearly don’t understand. This is very simple stuff if you look at facts instead of garbage disinformation you are fed by media and politicians. Pick better sources of information.

Records kept by FFL’s must be accessible by law. There are no exceptions.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/what-licensee’s-responsibility-respond-request-trace-firearm

An FFL is a serious obligation with very stringent requirements.

 

And once again you are deliberately missing the point. If that gun shop owner was on holiday on the other side of the world on 4th July Crimo would still have been free to carry out his next mass shooting

 

Because his other gun was left in the car and his other three guns were at home

Not sure what your point of your second paragraph. It's called CCTV which many Americans are against

 

LOL. This may come as a surprise to you but the savages that ended your colonial aspirations here and then became technologically advanced enough to save your continent from destruction twice in a 50 year period has access to cell phones, e-mail, and international services for that technology.

As I already posted, an FFL has no more than 24 hours to supply requested records after that request shows up in their e-mail folder or on their phone. Period. Non compliance results in loss of your FFL and fines.

 

Lol you think that wherever you are in the whole world you will have internet or mobile phone access! Keep digging

 

Dude. FFLs MUST comply within 24 hours. There are no exceptions. This means if George the FFL holder goes somewhere he is unreachable he MUST set up a responsible person (which are included on the FFL application) to comply in his stead. There is no circumstance where an FFL can not comply with requests within 24 hours. Period. It’s the law.

I don’t care how much disinformation you have swallowed or how much you wish reality didn’t exist, but requests for 4473 must be remitted within 24 hours. That’s it. Your opinion or beliefs in fiction are irrelevant.

And here is your original statement Mr. goalpost re-locator.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Give it up. Educate yourself.

“If the gun store had gone bust that murderer would still be on the run”

 

LOL. If it was that simple there would not be the need for a FFL Out Of Business request form! Keep digging. All of this would be unnecessary if all the data was accessible directly

 

I’m ready for your response that goes something like this.

If George the gun shop guy gets gored to death in Africa and the responsible persons listed on the FFL are all killed in an auto accident the killer would still be on the loose. LOL

 

Out of business is not the same as closed for the weekend. Many gun stores here are only open a few hours a week. They have to make records available just like anyone else. Even George on vacation in Africa. No exceptions.

Why would someone who has relinquished their FFL or died be required to respond to the ATF with records requests within 24 hours? You are leaving reality completely.

 

You're getting it now LOL perhaps you could explain how that dead gun shop owner could respond within 24 hours? Thank you for adding to my point. All would be unnecessary if all data was accessible directly

 

IOW, the deadliest gunfights in the Old West occurred in spite of gun control laws.

 

He wouldn’t. His mandatory responsible person list would be required to reply until such time the FFL was revoked and records were transferred to NTC.

The reason it works this way is because it is illegal to have the type of registry you propose.

And using your logic that system would be no good anyway because all the employees that run it might die the same day or a fire might destroy all the servers. LOL

The reason your system doesn’t exist is because it’s illegal and Americans wish it to remain illegal.

 

Consider for context, the ATF takes weeks to months to process form 4 requests etc. using information that is all readily accessible. Why do you think such an inefficient bureaucracy could work faster than the under 24 hour response of FFL’s?

Look at this shooter. He had interacted at least twice I believe with law enforcement for threatening violence. Yet he obtained and kept a FOID card that allowed him to purchase firearms he SHOULD have been denied. You are arguing the fox needs more control of guarding the hen house.

 

Which bit don't you get when I wrote "Why put so many delays in the system and instead make maintaining a Federal Firearm Registry legal" the post you first responded to?

You do know that something that is illegal can be made legal? Yes?

 

I corrected your very incorrect disinformation in my first response. You claimed out of business FFL records were inaccessible. This is false. Instead of correcting your error you moved the goalposts another 3-4 times, every time demonstrating your lack of knowledge of our existing laws. I appreciate that because I think it’s important for everyone to see how little knowledge anti firearm people actually possess.

Yes, if Americans wanted a registry we would have one. We don’t want one so we made having one illegal. You understand how that works? We don’t care about your opinions that are based on disinformation.

 

"The NTC receives an average of 1.2 million out-of-business records per month and is the only repository for these records within the United States." So a partial gun registry exists?