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A carbon tax will NOT work fast enough to address WAIS collapse.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by DennisTate, Feb 5, 2016.

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  1. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    DennisTate, Apr 2, 2016
    #26
  2. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's just a scare advertisement to sell solar panels.
     
    Professor Peabody, Apr 2, 2016
    #27
  3. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ya just can't make this stuff up.
     
    Professor Peabody, Apr 2, 2016
    #28
  4. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    First both your references are to the second coming at which point none of us are going to be particularly concerned with whether the descriptions there in are metaphorical or real.

    Scientific evidence actually suggest that Antartica with the exception of one peninsula -about ten percent of its landmass - is cooling. In fact most of the ice it is losing is a product of two forces the first is sublimation the second drought in an area that is largely a desert in any case.
     
    garyd, Apr 2, 2016
    #29
  5. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes..... that is one possible way..... and I like this idea as well.

    http://wikimapia.org/11302609/Official-Residence-of-Palestinian-Ambassador-to-Japan
    Official Residence of Palestinian Ambassador to Japan (Tokyo)


     
    DennisTate, Apr 7, 2016
    #30
  6. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But..... Mr. Gore may have inspired President Bush and P. M. Stephen Harper to deliberately use the Global Dimming Effect to prevent what Mr. Gore had warned us about from happening?!?!


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_dimming

    .....

    ....
     
    DennisTate, Apr 7, 2016
    #31
  7. Kurmugeon

    Kurmugeon Well-Known Member

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    I get very sick of the Psuedo-Science of "Magical Nano" whatever.

    The remake of the movie "The day the earth stood still" typifies the "Tech-Magic" concepts of nanites which is total science and engineering B.S.

    One of the things which most amuses me about the Clouds of hungry nanites consuming steel and concrete structures, is, where does the freak'en energy come from, to power the nanites rabid little teeth? A wrecking ball on a crane still needs electrical power or diesel fuel. So does a bull dosser, and the rate of the "Deconstruction" would require power flows which would be beams of incandescent energy flowing to each nanite!

    Additionally, lets say that the nanites could really take little bites out of steel. Okay, but all blades dull, and all teeth wear away...

    Its Nano-Magic!

    The entire concept that somehow CO2 is the primary gas associated with climate change is in itself Bull(*)(*)(*)(*).

    The only atmospheric Gas which plays a significant role is Nitrogen, and its effect of Rayleigh scattering of UV-Blue light back out into space, carrying energy with it. This is driven by changes in the solar spectrum, and the sun-spot cycle.

    But, IF you are obsessed with CO2 and "Carbon-Control", a far more practical approach is to use various forms of Chemical Synthesis to take CO2 from the atmosphere to manufacture hydrocarbon fuels, which turn into CO2 and water vapor on combustion, and the entire technology is Carbon-Neutral, in that each tonne of CO2 released in the combustion, is offset by the production of the next tonne of synthetic fuel, the carbon cycling and never new carbon is added.

    Dugh! That is the pragmatic, and realistic way to approach Carbon-Control, if there actually was any real need to do so.

    But you sneer, and deny, and ignore, because the Lefties do not now, and never have wanted a SOLUTION, they rely upon having the Pet-Threat-Problem to gain un-deserved political Power and MONEY!

    The entire AGW Hoax is a Monument to Leftie GREED!

    -
     
    Kurmugeon, Apr 7, 2016
    #32
  8. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    DennisTate, Apr 7, 2016
    #33
  9. Kurmugeon

    Kurmugeon Well-Known Member

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    Zero point energy is a theory of quantum physics which explains a very small amount of energy missing from rather simplistic current mathematical models of the states of matter and energy.

    http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/energy/zero-point-energy.htm

    It would not provide anywhere near enough energy to power the nanites, because the amount of energy present in any given volume of space is very small, and one nanite would have to harvest the zero-Point energy from a volume the size of several planetary volumes each!

    If the nanite could previously have collected the energy and stored it, the stored energy would be an energy/density density greater than the matter at the core of a star.

    Zero Point energy will probably turn out to be a mistake in the models.

    Sorry, it is a fun Myth of science fiction, but not a practical solution to anything.



    I have worked around labs which were producing actual nanites for research into cancer tumor reduction. I watched their experiments with great interest.

    The technology has great promise, but it is SLOW, as in Weeks to chew up a tumor the size of an apple seed. It is powered currently by a bright, blue spectrum light shinning down into the test cell.

    Later, it is presumed that it would be powered by metabolism of the debris of the dead tumor, but the tech for making those Metabolic "Stomachs and Generators" are expected to be available in around 20 years, if funding is increased.

    It is expected that the speed of the nanites would have to slow to approximately half of their current rates, which are for testing only, when operated on debris digestion power generation.

    There still has to be a solution to the problem of carrying away the waste products of that "Burning" of debris fuel, to prevent those toxins from killing surrounding healthy tissues.

    Real world Nanites are like wind and water weathering, they are SLOW!

    -
     
    Kurmugeon, Apr 7, 2016
    #34
  10. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    And now we come to the final phase of the Denier circle jerk.

    First it was...

    It's not happening


    Then it was../.

    It's actually getting colder


    then

    Well it's MIGHT be happening but the scientists are lying


    then


    It's happening but man is not the reason


    And now finally


    It's too late to do anything about it
     
    Lesh, Apr 7, 2016
    #35
  11. Taxpayer

    Taxpayer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, it's a movie ... so those stories are constructed to be simple fiction, providing an understandable, fun ride in a few hours. But your questions are missing some of the major advantages of nano-scale construction (or destruction).

    An iron atom is about a fifth of a nano-meter in diameter. When you are building stuff at the nano-scale (or deconstructing it) you are moving individual atoms (or small clumps of them) around. No teeth are smaller than an atom and none are needed at that level, you are using electrostatic potential to shift individual atoms and their electrons. Electrical charge never dulls.

    And fuel? Shifting the position of atoms and electrons is changing the potential energy that already exists in the sample. Tearing down concrete and iron walls would involve catalyzing the motion of their particles into a lower energy configuration. Yes you need fuel for a bulldozer or wrecking ball... but a water wheel or forest fire finds it's own. When iron ships rust—the ship is the battery that drives the process.



    ​
     
    Taxpayer, Apr 7, 2016
    #36
  12. Kurmugeon

    Kurmugeon Well-Known Member

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    Bull(*)(*)(*)(*)!

    Man Caused Climate change has always been a propaganda lie!

    There is NOT any good science to back the theory, and never has been.

    In fact, due to the Signal-to-Noise-Levels involved, the sampling time for making any good scientific measurement is over two hundred years, and that is just to tell which direction things are changing!

    Those of us who do REAL science, which is held to mathematical and procedural standards know it.

    The "Scientific Data" presented by "Climate Scientists" would be laughed out of any peer review if it were presented at in any other branch of science; Pharmacology, Mechanical Engineering, even softer sciences like Archeology and Psychology hold their data presentation to standards that would rip the "Climate Data" to shreds!

    You're very snide, smarmy, political in this post, and scientifically full of (*)(*)(*)(*).

    -
     
    Kurmugeon, Apr 7, 2016
    #37
  13. DOconTEX

    DOconTEX Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yeah, old Al said the arctic would be free of ice by two years ago. Is it?

    As Professor Glen Reynolds of Instapundit says, I will believe it is a crisis when the people who tell me its a crisis start behaving like its a crisis. I.e. don't fly around in private jets, travel in limo caravans and live in 14,000 Sf mansions, own multiple houses, etc. like all the Hollywood hoaxers and the hoaxer spokesperson in chief, Al Gor does.
     
    DOconTEX, Apr 7, 2016
    #38
  14. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Mr. Gore knows that flying around in a jet........much like a volcanic eruption...... increases the particles that increase Global Dimming..... that tend to decrease a general global warming trend.
     
    DennisTate, Apr 16, 2016
    #39
  15. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Stop the Deforestation!
     
    Professor Peabody, Apr 16, 2016
    #40
  16. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes.... that would be about 99% less expensive than replanting and desalinating ocean water for reforestation projects?!
     
    DennisTate, Apr 16, 2016
    #41
  17. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A Sigmund Ivarsson has an interesting theory.....
    drill a seventy km tunnel from Tel Aviv to the Dead Sea....
    nine meters in diameter....... This will pump over two hundred million gallons of
    ocean water to that area yearly........ Build a hydro-electric generating
    facility at the end of the tunnel..... then desalinate the water with technology similar to
    The Sahara Solar Breeder Project or the Sahara Forest Project........

    and..... convince the nation of Israel to agree to this plan by agreeing to the rebuilding of the Jerusalem Third Temple......
     
    DennisTate, May 1, 2016
    #42
  18. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    Boy did I call THIS one.

    First the Deniers said there was no such thing as Global Warming

    Then they admitted it but said man had nothing to do with it

    Then they finally came around to the fact that man DOES influence it

    And now we approach the beginning of the final pivot.

    It's too late to do anything about it

    They're as wrong here as they were about every other foot dragging argument they've made...but they not TRYING to be right...they're trying to obstruct.
     
    Lesh, May 1, 2016
    #43
  19. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is a good analysis of what has been happening.

    On the other hand..... a badly planned carbon tax might have sent the world into a rapid warming trend.... by nearly negating Global Dimming.
     
    DennisTate, May 1, 2016
    #44
  20. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    Sometime in the future the sun will become a red giant and extend its boundaries to somewhere between the orbits of Venus and Earth. The oceans will not rise; they'll boil away -- and CO2 will have nothing to do with it.
     
    RodB, May 6, 2016
    #45
  21. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    The government ,US, need to slowly abandon the coastal cities. I would no longer insure properties unless for cargo shipping and let the businesses and homeowners find private insurance for hurricane and flooding damage. Then slowly move vital services to inland cities like Wall Streets Stock Exchange should be moved to perhaps Denver. If done now over the next century we can abandon the highest risk areas and move populations inlands as the national infrastructure and such adjusts over time.
     
    tkolter, May 6, 2016
    #46
    DennisTate likes this.
  22. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is logical!

    That is one possible response to the probability of much higher ocean levels but......
    we have some allies in the formula... such as the amount of H2O being added to the
    central region of Antarctica.........
    which could make the planned lowering of ocean levels possible in theory and less
    expensive than abandoning coastal communities or... building dikes or sea walls to attempt to
    delay the inevitable.
     
    DennisTate, May 10, 2016
    #47
  23. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    DennisTate, Jun 4, 2016
    #48
  24. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But for the immediate future we need to concentrate our efforts
    on making this world a better place......... and defelop the technology to move
    elsewhere in the universe when that time comes.
     
    DennisTate, Jun 4, 2016
    #49
  25. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Petra Project from Tel Aviv to the Dead Sea is a better opening gambit........
    then......

    Philip Whaley
    https://www.facebook.com/notes/can-...mund-ivarssons-petra-project/1128360860554182
    Sigmund Ivarsson’s Petra Project
     
    DennisTate, Jun 21, 2016
    #50
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