A logical and empirical look at Election Fraud in 2020

There was tons of evidence, significant evidence of it being a stolen election, just coouldn't get the courts to look at that evidence.

 

Oh, SURE!!!

Courts are so averse to looking at evidence!

LOL!

 

If you think your side is innocent in the the complete lack of faith in our elections, then you really need to examine your statement "very special memory" and apply that to yourself.

As stated in the OP, this is not an "us vs them" thread. Both sides cry foul when they lose and it is a problem that is getting progressively worse. The topic here is simply Why? And is there any logical or empirical reason to believe such?

 

First of all, the Republican assault on democracy absolutely is NOT stopping.

It's revving up steam all across our nation.

As for the rest, sorry, but Dems are going to work on helping working America, and those suffering due to COVID. And, that's going to include even those who have skin colors that white supremacists so love to hate.

If Republicans want to help, GREAT!

If they just want to keep focusing on ending democracy, well, that makes them traitors.

 

This is just plain ridiculous as an argument.

EVERYONE hates to lose.

What comes next is the issue. Gore conceded before the votes were even counted! Six of the last 7 elections have had a significant plurality for Dems, yet Dems didn't get 6 out of 7 presidential terms. Yet they did not attack our democracy. They did not resort to violence to overthrow our form of government. They didn't even mount an effort to change the electoral college that is so weighted against Dems. They didn't even mount an effort to recognize and fix the unbelievable level of denial of representation to American citizens that is based on where they live.

YOU cast this as an "us v. them" issue when you forget to notice that Republicans are aggressively attacking our democracy from before November through today. The murderous insurgency against our democracy on Jan 6 is something UNIQUELY Republican. And, the Republican refusal to take action against that is also uniquely Republican. Furthermore, Republicans are continuing the assault on our democracy at the state level.

This IS a very much ONE SIDED issue.

 

there was no evidence it was stolen, which is why none of the trump lawsuits alleged fraud, or attempted to provide evidence of fraud.

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

 

Many people fail to use a complete set of books; just select parts to make judgements by. And sadly- most are not fully able to think for themselves.
Trump's supporters were not unaware of his faults, nor did we like them. However, his faults are not why he was elected or supported- the reason for those things was his ability to see what needed to be done, and rapidly make the right things happen. Those are business skills, something virtually unseen in politics- but drastically needed. Had their been another candidate besides Trump with those skills and lacking Trumps undiplomatic manner, he would probably have won the office.

Despite what the dems and libs claim, Trump WAS a man who got those things done. IF he had not, the left would have been all over him for economic failures- but there was nothing to base that claim on, so they had to attack personality. They started that the moment he said he would run, even planned impeachment before the election. They already knew he would upset the apple cart of traditional political benefits.
It's incredibly foolish to elect anyone who has a nice public image but incompetent job skills- which unfortunately is exactly the way most politicians get elected. They tell you what you want to hear, make promises they can't keep, tell people they have no real respect for how important they are- and you vote for them. Then they blame lack of improvement on the opposition, put band-aid patches on their failed programs and tell you they fixed them- then tell you again how important you are, and you vote for them again.

IF we had been electing competent politicians, how could we possibly be in the mess we are in? How could 535 members of congress not figure out a way to make our government effective and accountable to the people? Read the paragraph above again. WE the people are not as smart as we think, or that crap wouldn't be acceptable to us.

Presidents are temporary; but a position in congress may be held for 50 years or more. Entrenchment is the norm- not the exception.
The only people who have the ability to fire (immediately terminate) a member of congress- IS Congress. They alone have the power to clean their own house. Regardless of your politics, few people can deny that we have had a great many miserable excuses for public servants in congress- dishonest, some convicted of felonies and jailed, others of serious sexual abuses; fraud, tax evasion and much more.

However- In the 155 years since the civil war ended, congress has seen fit to remove a total of TWO of it's own members.
Politics is a very dirty game, and nice guys couldn't survive- let alone get elected. I assure you- most of those people in congress are not what they appear to be publicly, but they know well something JFK's father Joe told him was true; That what you are doesn't matter in politics; what people think you are is all that matters. He was right, and they all pose and posture to cater to our gullibility. Trump refused to do that, and was punished mercilessly for it. Guess he over-estimated us; thought we were stronger than we are.

We the people will elect people who tell us comfortable lies, who stuff their pockets selling influence, who set their friends and family up with juicy government jobs and contracts, who ignore their oath of office and violate the basic Federal Ethics guidelines every day- so long as they keep the comfortable lies coming. The number of people who are willing to buy the idea that "somebody else" should pay, is responsible for the "injustice' they believe they are victims of, that they have been cheated by those who are more successful, that there is a big "Easy" button in life that others (the wealthy/entitled/wrong race/wrong religion/educated/uneducated/banks/industry/business/ (take your choice) and a hundred more have kept them from finding- that part of our society has been growing rapidly in recent years. Less and less people can stand on their own feet, even though life has never been easier. Victims.... of themselves.

You may think Trump was bad. I suggest you keep your eyes open now, and see what bad really is. By the way, I hope I'm wrong, but I'd bet really long odds on being right. Unfortunately if I am- everybody loses.

 

It's fact.. you need to read more.. the whole of the elite wanted to get Trump from investigating their corrupt schemes.

 

The Republican action at Trump's loss was an full bore insurrection against our government, with MURDER inside our Capitol.

For you to suggest that isn't unique in US history is just plain BS.

Beyond that, the response by Republicans has been dedicated to a CONTINUING assault on our democracy.

I'd really appreciate it if you would APOLOGIZE for your slander.

 

Lots of words. No content.

During Trump's administration our economy grew at the rate that had been established by Obama, whose recovered America from the LAST Republican catastrophe. Why would that engender complaint?? Plus, our economy did NOT grow at the rate that Trump promised. So, claiming the economy as a Trump success is just plain LAUGHABLE.

The rest is NOT AN EXCUSE, nor does it reduce the STARK reality of the contrast between Democratic support of democracy and the Republican insurrection and continuing battle to DEFEAT democracy - NOT just in this election but in future elections as well.

 

You need to explain what you are talking about.

"The whole of the elite"???

"get Trump from investigating their corrupt schemes"???

 

I'd try to explain it to you but it would take too long, and you really don't want to be swayed from your viewpoint. AND I did not initiate a conversation with you anyway, so go back your "insurrection" BS,

 

Fake News. It's perfectly rational. A thought experiment. You and I are supposed to split a bag of money 50/50. You trick me into leaving, count it by yourself, later find me and hand me what you claim is my "half" and then if I protest say: "it's irrational to say I didn't give you your half!"

Communication is about using words to communicate ideas, and you seem to be catching on just fine to what I'm communicating with the phrase.

I appreciate you bringing that to my attention. Let me look into this.

 

Although Clause 2 seemingly vests complete discretion in the states, certain older cases recognize a federal interest in protecting the integrity of the process. And this where we find ourselves today.

The Court upheld the power of Congress; to protect the right of all citizens who are entitled to vote, to lend aid and support in any legal manner to the selection of legally qualified persons as a presidential elector. Its power to protect the choice of electors from fraud or corruption was sustained. If this Federal government is anything, it must have the power to protect the elections on which its existence depends from violence and corruption. If it has not this power it is helpless before the two great natural and historical enemies of all republics, open violence and insidious corruption.

Ex parte Yarbrough, 110 U.S. 651, 657–58 (1884) (quoted in Burroughs and Cannon v. United States, 290 U.S. 534, 546 (1934)).

So, State Legislatures can clean this up, but should they fail to do so, Congress must step in and do it. We cannot allow the continuance of a system where 4 cities can steal a national election.

In a more recent case the Court again certified the Federal on state discretion by both the Court and the Congress. In Williams v. Rhodes, the Court struck down a complex state system that violated the Equal Protection Clause. Justice Black specifically denied that the language of Clause 2, which you cited, immunized state practices from federal oversight.

In Oregon v. Mitchell, the Court upheld the power of Congress to reduce the voting age in presidential elections and to set a thirty-day durational residency period as a qualification for voting in presidential elections. Justice Black relied on implied and inherent congressional powers to create and maintain a national government. That is more than sufficient to preserve the Federal role in ensuring Free and Fair elections should the State Legislature fail to do so. Other Justices came to the same end point of affirming the Federal role in election supervision, but, considered with Williams v. Rhodes, based their decision on the Fourteenth Amendment allowing the Federal government to override state practices that violate that Amendment and substitute standards of its own.

I really don't care how elections are cleaned up, only that they are cleaned up. What happened in the 2020 election cannot be allowed to happen again. Awarding by Congressional district is more a way of limiting the effects of crooked cities than it is a remedy, but if the Legislature cannot figure out a way to clean up city elections, it may be the best way forward.

 

Ok.

You desire to bury your head in the sand.

Got it.

 

Nope, never wondered it. NO reason to wonder it.

 

The judges did that. Because the judges said the legal team provided no case.

 

Vote DOMINION for 2024 !
" You can't lose .."​

 

I don’t entertain conspiracy theories. The simple matter of fact is that trump couldn’t lead. He had a moment to unite the nation and show off his leadership skills. And he failed miserably. If anything states that shut down completely did more to protect the economy than to hurt it. You can’t lead a project if you’re in the hospital sick and dying, let alone the huge hospital bills people will have to pay. Trump failed and people pointlessly died. You have to accept that. Simple as that.

 

For me, the astronomical implementation of no-excuse absentee voting, which is 50 times more susceptible to voter fraud (1), is what makes me highly question the legitimacy of the current occupant in the White House. There were many other irregularities and lack of regulation, such as counting votes, with or without an observer, and weak regulations, such as keeping observers at least six feet away during the counting process that throws it all into question. Democracy died in the darkness, unfortunately.

1. https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10000872396390443864204577621732936167586

 

There are multiple CREDIBLE sources FACTUALLY documenting Minority Voter Suppression nationwide by Republicans for many DECADES.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...voter-suppression-donald-trump-election-fraud

https://www.npr.org/2018/10/23/6597...orts-are-targeting-minorities-journalist-says

https://news.berkeley.edu/2020/09/2...ow-the-gop-works-to-suppress-minority-voting/

https://www.afj.org/article/what-drives-the-gop-obsession-with-restricting-voting-race/

https://www.bitchmedia.org/article/voter-suppression-history-gop-election-2016

Facts matter!

 

If you have facts post them, if you have any particular instance you would like to highlight then by all means discuss! We know what the democratic mouth pieces claim about racism and voter suppression, posting more opinion pieces and speculation doesn't really make a case unless this is your only justification for believing it. I would ask, do you have any thoughts yourself on the matter?

There seems to be a couple themes in you op-eds though. One is that trying to prevent fraud is somehow voter suppression, I just don't really see the connection. Requiring people to be who they say they are, be registered in the district where they actually live, and be alive and breathing is not voter suppression IMO.

The other prevailing theory is (SPOILER ALERT)... Racism. Who could of guessed.

The racial voter suppression narrative is really odd to me. Donald Trump actively campaigned for Black and Latino votes and that lead to a surge of Latino votes that helped push FL over the edge. It does not make sense that votes are being suppressed along racial lines any more when both parties are actively campaigning to racial minorities. IMO the narrative of racism and voter suppression is just a tactic used by activist groups and politicians to drive voters to the polls. What is really racist IMO is the way both political parties actively put us in to neat little groups and try to keep us there and then tell us lies to make us hate each other. It will be nice when we are all just Americans instead of some demographic to be won.

 

That article is really old. I am not saying that it should be dismissed necessarily, just that I am not sure it is relevant to your position of the 2020 election, being we were in the middle of a pandemic.

To your point, I agree absentee voting opens the door for fraud. But, and this is a huge but, 50 times more than >.0001% (estimated instances of fraud that usually occur see post# 7), is still not a lot. Also, there is a process to check these ballots, which would make widespread voter fraud very difficult, if not impossible IMO.

I also do not get the whole "we weren't allowed to watch" argument. Are you suggesting that all the pole workers are democrat AND willing to risk prison time to change votes? And the only thing stopping them is someone "watching"? I just have more faith in people than that.

 

Why would anyone in the corrupt DP/RP ruling political class want to interfere with the rigging of an election against Donald Trump?