America, so far, is exceptional in that it still exists after nearly 250 years and public attention,

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by XXJefferson#51, Aug 4, 2022.

  1. XXJefferson#51

    XXJefferson#51 Banned

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    When the constitution was written slavery was legal in both France and Great Britain. Some American states banned slavery within their borders before either of those nations did
     
  2. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

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    The point is that the ideology expressed in your founding Papers wasn't acted on until later than many other countries.
     
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  3. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    This ought to be taught in every primary and secondary school. Too bad it often is not. Even worse as of late the agenda driven fairy tale version is being taught.

    Unfortunately we seem to be heading down the road to the dustbin of history, and lately picking up speed.
     
  4. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    I don't think there were any black people on the list of notables in the founding, although they did have significant representation in that a majority of the founders and framers wanted to outlaw slavery. Unfortunately a minority, albeit an important minority, forced us to either accept slavery (for a while) or not form the union. There was slavery in America long before its founding and during its founding. It took a civil war to finally get it stopped. This was one of those dark spots on our founding, but it does not detract on the overall superior greatness of our founding as described in the OP.
     
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  5. Sirius Black

    Sirius Black Well-Known Member

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    and I agree with you:
    a country where all people are created equal with the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness
    a country where all people have the right to free speech, even those that are woke
    a country where people even non citizens have the right to lawfully bear arms
    a country where all people have the civil right to be treated equally under law
    a country where all citizens participate in their government by having the right to vote

    In order to keep it we must insist that both ends of the political spectrum respect these values for all people.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2022
  6. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    This is true, but can be misleading. We modeled our constitution roughly over the general enlightenment period but also took great pains and deliberateness to make sure we did not have a ton of things England and European countries had and did.
     
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  7. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    But it still was built on those earlier documents. I actually have a reproduction of the Magna Carta because for what was essentially a list of gripes from some pissed off nobles it has had an inordinate influence on the world
     
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  8. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    AFAIK it is not unacknowledged.
     
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  9. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    To be accurate it was slaves, not blacks, that were counted as 3/5.
     
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  10. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

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    What things do you mean?
     
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  11. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Some argue that the Roman Empire lasted 800 years or more. I doubt seriously we will last half that long.
     
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  12. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    I didn't see it in the materials that OP provided. I'll look again.
     
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  13. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

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    It was the first time a monarch, assumed to be gods representative, had to share power with someone else.
    That it was in the 13th century is surprising and unique
     
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  14. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    Is fighting a godawful civil war pointing it out enough??
     
  15. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Which was more than women had :disbelief::disbelief::disbelief:
     
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  16. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Agreed and it is even more surprising when you read it - it actually encompasses some basic women’s rights
     
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  17. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    It is the latter, to destroy to below the foundation,that the haters want. They couldn't care less about how blacks or anyone else are treated.
     
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  18. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

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    This was part of the French Constitution signed in 1789.
    Yours was signed in 1787.
    I doubt you can claim exceptionalism by a mere two years while France was finishing its own révolution.
    Today most nations of à liberal democratic nature have the same rights and responsibilities.
     
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  19. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

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    There is a general awareness the your national history is often not told honestly.
    Those who also live in liberal democracies don't see the US as exceptional.
    BTW what things of Europe and Britain did you not want to include? You didn't answer me the first time I asked.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2022
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  20. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    I think the answer might include Kings and Queens but considering how they treat their presidents they basically got that anyway
     
  21. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

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    One can also say that American bragging rights that shove your "exceptionalism" into the faces of orher liberal democracies tells them that you consider THEM to be inferior.
    That you try to destabilise their présence.
    The réputation this has created in some places consists of arrogance and ignorance. I don't see it that way but can understand how some do. They often have had bloody wars to establish their constitutions. Just like you did.
     
  22. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    The French Constitution was high in words, not so much in reality. And it took the French about four revolutions to finally almost get it right.

    Our constitutional republic has significant differences from most other countries. Most don't even have a Constitution or at least one they don't change every few hears. AFAIK we are the only country that constitutionally has three independent powers of government (Legislative, Executive, and Judicial) -- considered the linchpin of our Constitution -- for instance
     
  23. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    Over the past 50 years or so the teaching of American history has waned a bit but I know of no time when it was purposefully taught incorrectly, at least until the 1619 Project showed up.

    Everybody thinks their team (country) is much better than any other team, well, most everybody.

    The way we choose a president and the presidential powers, the separation of powers, the way judges are appointed, the way congress is elected and constituted, the freedom of the press, speech, and assembly, the freedom to bear arms, the freedom against unreasonable searches and seizures, the crime and penalty of treason, the impeachment process, etc, etc, etc.
     
  24. Izzy

    Izzy Well-Known Member

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    Does Douglas tell how much he loved America when he fled to the UK as a fugitive slave to avoid being captured and returned to his master?

    Only to return to America after a group of UK women purchased him from his master.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2022
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  25. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    Not exactly. Women were counted in the census to determine representative numbers.
     

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