American Wages, the Minimum Wage and Income Brackets

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by Kari Sims, Mar 25, 2019.

  1. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    When I had my shop. I told an employee, The only thing that keeps me from paying him what he is actually worth.
    Is Minimum wage laws.
     
  2. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    There's nothing 'disingenuous and coincidental'? They are tax laws that apply to everyone.

    Makes no difference what labor costs, or materials, etc...all of it can be expensed. And it should be expensed because it's not income!
     
  3. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    How people manage their lives, how they make decisions, will not be altered by forcing more education on people. Is education important...absolutely. But IMO there is no way possible that education can be a solution to any of our problems today...
     
  4. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    the more Labor costs, the More you get to Expense. why do you Care what labor actually costs; you re-examine your operations and upgrade wherever possible to recover the greatest return to scale. Promote the general welfare we must.
     
  5. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Easily accessible facts and history refutes that, as does logic.
     
  6. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Logic like your assumptions;

    That the existing education system does not work?
    That if education was somehow different more people will do better?
    That some undefined education will translate to better decision making?
    That people are not a product of their limitations?
    That you can simply educate people to a different level?

    If it were so easy to educate our problems away why not educate everyone to understand climate change potential?
    To understand and support science?
    To stop speeding when driving?
    To stop alcohol abuse?
    To stop drug abuse?
    To hold their president and Congress responsible?
    To avoid crime?

    You will never educate the masses to make better decisions...
     
  7. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    higher paid labor pays more in taxes and create more in market based demand.
     
  8. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    Then shoot them.
     
  9. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Completely illogical! And it defies fact.

    You are saying that education doesn't produce any measurable changes in decision-making. But it's a fact that when countries have improved and spread sex education, the birth rate falls.

    In addition, states with poorer populations and less revenue that spend less on education and have a lower rate of education, also suffer continued poverty, populations making poorer choices having more early and out-of-wedlock pregnancies. Most notable are the Southern states. They have some of the highest crime rates. Note the Southern states in the top ten....
    https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-most-dangerous-states-in-the-u-s.html
     
  10. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Humans will more than likely annihilate themselves...
     
  11. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    They're too tired to have sex from all the studying!

    The US and all it's failures are created by society...not from a lack of education...
     
  12. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Forgetting the minimum wage for just a moment, we might notice that the real median wage has been flat-ish for 40 years. So given that our capitalists haven't seen fit to share the wealth equitably, and since so many are now approaching poverty-level income, a required minimum wage of $12-15/hour is justified.

    And regarding your concern that it would mean that some don't have a job, I thought unemployment being so low meant that employers are unable to find qualified employees! So that allows people to move around and find new work. Secondly, we would not allow businesses to pay $1/hour even though many more businesses could succeed at that level. We would say if they can't pay more than $1/hour, their product or service isn't needed or the demand would make a higher wage possible. Well, how about $2/hour? How about 3? Where do we draw the line? At what minimum wage do we say it is just at the boundary between the product or service not being needed, and the wage being minimally reasonable? Well, how about if we say (without changing laws and rules and guidelines on qualification for public assistance) that the minimum wage is high enough when a person earning it and working full time (40 hours per week) does not qualify for public assistance due to income level? And then those businesses that can't make it profitably when paying that minimum wage, doesn't deserve to exist since demand doesn't drive a higher affordability on wages.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
  13. james M

    james M Banned

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    What you're trying to say is that liberals haven't shared it equitably with Americans, but have shared it with Mexicans and Chinese. And now they are doubling down by hoping to tear down the border wall to let another 30 million jobs go to Mexico!.
     
  14. AlphaMale

    AlphaMale Member

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    Capitalism the most efficient system we have there is no need for corrections look at how well we are doing and how many wealthy people are in this country. Our poor are richer then most people in other countries.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
  15. AlphaMale

    AlphaMale Member

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    Government or businesses do not have a responsibility to make sure you have a certain amount of money it is up to you to do that it is called personal responsibility many people have started with little and worked there way up.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
  16. james M

    james M Banned

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    let alone corrections with socialism which just killed 120 million and impoverished 100's of millions! When China corrected socialism with capitalism it instantly eliminated 40% of the entire planet's poverty.
     
  17. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I was given an article back in 1994 that opened my eyes to why things are like they are.


    https://www.michaeljournal.org/articles/politics/item/abraham-lincoln-and-john-f-kennedy

    A tiny segment of the population want the economy to be have boom and bust cycles:

    https://www.michaeljournal.org/arti...story-of-banking-control-in-the-united-states
    In comparison to how things used to be the Federal Reserve has been doing pretty good.... but the problem of Elitism is still rather obvious.

    There are about a hundred families on earth who do really well during a recession or even during a full scale Depression.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
  18. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    You miss the point. We should have no homeless on the streets, in that case. What fine and wonderful, capital solutions do you offer at lower cost?
     
  19. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    the same could be said of our alleged wars on crime, drugs, and terror; just personal responsibility.
     
  20. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Minimum wage is low because raising it makes the problem worse.

    Consider a locally owned burger joint competing with McDonalds. The local joint has a very small resource reserve to pull from while it adapts to new economic conditions. McDonalds has (to understate it) a far larger resource reserve. When the min wage goes up, businesses must pay that new wage immediately and figure out how to make the money later, which is far more likely to result in collapse of small businesses than of large. McDonalds can just pull from corporate reserves and run in the red until the local joint dies off, at which point McDonalds gets all their customers and can raise prices to meet the new payroll requirements while replacing their reserves. The result is that employees have more money, but pay more for burgers in a market that has less competition. Rinse/repeat over a long enough period of time, and McDonalds innevitably becomes the only burger joint, charging whatever it wants as theres no one competing. This is why its common to find the largest/wealthiest corporations lobbying for minimum wage increases- it increases their domination over their respective markets as well.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
  21. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Far too simple.

    If anyone had the chance to leave high-school and obtain (free, gratis and for nothing) a post-secondary degree they would have the best opportunity of finding and keeping a decent job. A "good job" is a matter of your qualifications. Always has been, always will be. (It's the set of qualifications necessary that has changed. High-school learning is simply not enough.)

    A high-school degree barely guarantees nowadays that a person knows how to read&write ...
     
  22. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    High school is just a basic training,
    The opportunities for advanced education trades, and military are there for all.
    As are the opportunities for gangs, crime, teen pregnancy.
    Just depends what attracts you.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
  23. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    The problem is a lack of a Maximum wage owner Capitalists can receive. They merely mismanage their capital instead of managing it better.
     
  24. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Do you know how much a post-secondary education costs nowadays? It's around $12K at any state school, and three/four times that much at an Ivy League school.

    Where does one get that kind the money, and why should anyone have to go into debt to do so?

    Why is it that this graphic exists:
    [​IMG]

    The percentage of Americans (25 years or older) who have completed four years of postsecondary education is around 30%. And I'd bet that they are also those earning some of the highest incomes in America.

    And that ratio, though growing is going to take a long, long time to break 50% and get to 80% (where it should be) if the US government does not fund that achievement.

    The US has the highest prison population in the world, and of that population around 60% don't even have a high-school degree!

    And what should we expect when way more than half the national Discretionary Spending Budget goes to the DoD?
    [​IMG]

    Where did Donald Dork get most of his election-funding? One guess ...
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
  25. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    There are lots of trades that need people with OJT
    There are lots of trades that need people, with OJT,
     

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