America's achilles heel - election system

That's because the intention is to suppress the vote among the demographic who find it difficult to obtain adequate ID.

 

No that is merely you assigning false motives and prejoratively claiming one race is less capable than another carrying out life's little responsibilities.

 

Can't do that we vote by secret ballot and I certainly do not want elected officials especially leftist fascist officials having some recordof for whom or what I voted.

 

Well you're talking two different things now and we are a Federal Republic. The federal government, the United States, has no interest in elections other than setting a date in order to have a set transition if the House and Senate and having the Electoral College in place every four years. In fact citizens of a state only vote for the electors to the electoral college to choose the President at the pleasure of their state legislature. There is no constitutional mandate the citizens of a state vote for them. And the last thing the states want is the federal government taking over elections.

 

The state should have no interest in cultivating and harvesting voters. If the citizen does not show the care and concern to get themselves properly registered and then educate themselves on the issues and candidates and then go and vote so be it. Better for our country they do not vote. No one can claim they were disfranchised because they did not carry out their civic and personal reaponsibility.

 

WRONG.

I will walk you through it.

Start here:

https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/dmv/license-drvs/how-to-apply/petition-process.aspx
Wisconsin ID card for voting purposes - petition process
Getting a free ID for Voting is easy even if you do not have the documentation to get a regular Wisconsin ID​

That links to here:

https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/dmv/license-drvs/how-to-apply/identity.aspx
Acceptable documents for proof of identity​

And that states the following (if you actually READ the page past the first line):

For REAL ID compliant and non-compliant cards:
...
Military discharge papers (including certified copy of federal form DD-214)

• U.S. government and military dependent identification card

• Marriage certificate or certified copy of judgment of divorce

• Documents permitted under proof of name and date of birth, if it bears a photograph

• A parent or guardian having legal custody identifies person under the age of 18 and the parent or guardian shows a valid Wisconsin operator’s license or ID card

• Transportation Worker Identification Credential (TWIC Card), issued by the Department of Homeland Security/Transportation Security Administration

• A valid photo college ID card from any U.S. university, college or technical college(Must contain student name and photograph)

• Unexpired temporary driving license or ID card receipt, including receipts from other jurisdictions

• Social Security Card issued by the Social Security Administration

• W-2 form including the customer's name, address and SSN

• SSA - 1099 form

• Non SSA-1099 form

• Paystub with the applicants name and entire Social Security Number listed

• Or provide BOTH of the requirements below:

• An unexpired foreign passport with a valid unexpired U.S. visa affixed accompanied by the approved I-94 form documenting the applicant's most recent admittance into the United States
• A document to demonstrate a non-work authorized status

• A government-issued product from a federal, state, county or city agency with the applicant’s name and signature.

​

 

I'd think the last thing you'd want is a corrupted electoral system, at whatever level..

But I take and understand your point, In my own country we have a federal system and we elect reps at state and federal level. But the election system is run by apolitical, independent public servants, not local politicians. Having said that the way we elect senators is dumb, one bloke who has caused a furore hear over his bigoted remarks in the chamber made it in on the back of 19 votes. System needs a rocket when it does that.

 

Well kinda a moot pointing I don't think anyone does.

Well what do you mean by run by?

 

"Run by" - meaning the Electoral Commissioner (appointed, not elected) at state and federal level conducts the whole election process. No politicians are involved.

 

yes social/economic conditions have nothing to do with carrying out life's little responsibilities.

 

Do they in your country? Does your country require an ID to vote?

 

Who appoints them? And at what level are they? An official who is merely appointed by an elected official is considered a political appointment and a political appointee here.

 

as you well know. we've discussed it a few times.

 

Yes so what is your problem with it here and why a concern of yours? Are Canadians somehow better at carrying out their life's responsibilities therefore voter ID is OK?

 

Why do right-wingers always make it about race ?

The people who are most enthusiastically pushing voter ID are exactly the same ones who disenfranchised tens of thousands by purging voter rolls and "accidentally on purpose" removing people with names a bit like convicted felons - but only in certain neighbourhoods. They're the same people who have reduced the number of polling stations in certain neighbourhoods to make sure that the lines are good and long. They're the same folks who have gerrymandered states so that the opposing party has to poll 7-10% more votes to achieve parity in representation.

If those people were genuinely only concerned about the vanishingly small issue of voter ID fraud then they'd make ID free and easy to obtain and make it the responsibility of the state to ensure that all registered voters have adequate ID.

Bearing all this in mind, it's hardly a stretch to assume that the primary objective of voter ID legislation is to keep certain demographics from voting.

 

Because left-wingers make our elections about race over simple practicle and pragmatic things like voter ID.

Purging voters rolls is required by laws and felons can't vote. No one was denied a vote.

Lines weren't only in black neighborhoods and both aides "gerrymandered"

Strawman and they are free.

Oh it IS about race. Voter ID doesn't keep people from voting. And as I noted even the UN voting monitors were surprised some stars did not require ID.

 

Yes they were. People with similar names were purged from the voter rolls even though they were not felons themselves and due t the difficulties of getting themselves back on the rolls in time - they were denied a vote.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/25/us/voter-rolls-registration-culling-election.html?_r=0

The GOP has gerrymandered to such an extent that in many states they have engineered a 7-10% advantage for themselves.

Even if the ID is free, getting it isn't easy.

http://www.brennancenter.org/publication/challenge-obtaining-voter-identification

Voter ID laws absolutely stop people from voting - it's what they're designed to do.

 

Regarding the UN, those monitors come from countries that require national IDs, which also serve as ID for voting. If we did that, I would have no problem with Voter ID.

Oddly, conservatives tend to oppose national IDs.

 

They were the panel from the UN Human Rights Commisionl that monitors elections world wide and they have differenet systems in different countries. Which ones have a seperate exclusive voter ID card? And I have no problem with a national ID but the fact remains there is no system in place for one that is a State responsibility just as are elections.

 

Most of the world requires national ID cards. Which is why requiring ID to vote imposes no additional burden in those places.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_identity_card_policies_by_country

I remember looking up the nationalities of the UN monitors when this claim came up at the time.

And pushing Voter ID while saying its up to states to ensure everyone has one is a cop out. The two requirements should go hand in hand.

 

And not here either.

Your recollections carry no weight here and you can't back your claim.

 

That is simply not true, and you know it.

Oh, FFS.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/foreig...mazed-by-trust-based-u-s-voting-system-2/amp/

Most observers were from emerging democracies. The two observers quoted were from Libya and Jordan, both of which require national IDs.

 

Electoral Commissioner and Deputy are appointed by the Governor (different role here, the Governor is the monarch's representative) on recommendation of both Houses of Parliament. They're totally independent of government.

 

ROFL OK so they are a political appointee. What do you mean "independent of the government"? What makes them, who are appointed by the government, more independent of the government than ours who we the PEOPLE elect and they are accountable to the PEOPLE not government appointers. I want my State Secretary of State to be beholding to me, not the governor. I want local election officials to be beholding to me, not the mayor or county commissioners. Why do you want them beholding to the politicians who appoint them?

 

Trump said that to divert media attention from the continuing Mueller investigation.