Public poll/multiple choice It is argued that a 35 foot tall border fence or wall is worthless because all a person needs is a 35 foot ladder and a rope. There are millions of fences and walls in the USA. Houses and businesses have fences and walls. Military bases and schools have fences. The average heights range from 3 feet to 12 feet for a high security fence. Most solid fences are 6 to 8 feet tall. Prisons have walls and fences. Are all those fences and walls worthless as a person at the most needs a 12 foot ladder and for many no ladder at all. Is the USA a collection of fools putting up fences and walls because they are worthless? (Oops mixed up the last two yes-s that should be no-s)
My own opinion: Yes, fences and walls provide security. They are particularly effective for guarded property and to defined boundaries and trespassing, ie illegal entry. So a person climbing a 35 foot tall fence on a border clearing is illegally entering the country. If there is no fence or wall there is not to even define a border.
They are not worthless. They have a certain effiect, and that effect has to weighed against the cost, and whether the same money spent in other ways could more affectively achieve that same purpose.
In the example of a national border, you could hire more guards to patrol your perimeter. Number of guards on patrol will always be the key issue. Install CCTV points at regular intervals monitored by guards 24/7. Have more helicopters to dispatch guards quickly to remote locations. Have drones patrolling all along the border gathering intel. On the legal end, we would need to expedite the deportation process. More investigators dealing with employers who hire illegal aliens. Stiff fines for every illegal alien employed. All this, in combination with upgraded and extended walls, would effectively control the border.
Fences and walls are good. Our Israeli allies use them to minimize terrorist infiltration by the Palestinians. We will use one too and get the Mexicans to pay for it.
Don't you think Obama should order the fence around the White House removed to match the Democrat party's claim that fences don't work and don't keep anyone out?
How is that cheaper? How many guards do you propose for 1000 miles of open border? If someone is seen running across the border on video, what then? A young person can cover about a mile every 5 minutes. So even if seen what was accomplished? Are you going to have drones with hellfire to gun them down? Getting over a 35 foot tall fence or wall is no easy trick. How fast can a person dig a tunnel under a border compared to just running across it?
We will allow the Palestinians to have Gaza as "Palestine". We will then build a wall to keep them out of Israel. The West Bank will come back under Israeli rule and Jerusalem will remain our eternal capital.
As far as for illegal immigration yes it is pretty much useless unless you make that wall go 50ft. underground and have border patrol and military patrolling it and shooting anyone who tries to go over it. The most powerful thing we have against illegal immigration would be passing laws that make access to anything in this country forbidden for illegals(schools,jobs, hospitals,etc.) and redefine the anchor baby law. Also most important making it illegal for anyone, in anyway, to assist illegal immigrants or else be charged with jail time and hefty fines. Make everything in this country unattainable for illegals would save us a ton more money and would be less trouble.
Fences are effective as long as there is a realistic way to get through the gate with a ticket. A 10 year line is not realistic, ergo people will find ways around the fence. To me, the problem has to primarily be addressed two ways: 1) Work visas have to be given priority over family visas as far as country caps and 2) we need a system the more closely aligns the needs of business with the availability of visas and do away with the lines for those visas that allow person A priority over person B that extend for more than a year. This could be beneficial to the foreign workers themselves. For instance this year dad might get to come pick lettuce. Next year maybe it will Son #1 and the year after Son #2 and the year after Dad again. It helps reduce the physical toil placed on individuals.
Walls are important to keep out rapists from the USA. They also keep out Palestinian terrorists from Israel.
BEFORE I read all the responses here, we all know exactly where this thread is going. Once again, the anti - immigrant lobby is wrong, wrong, wrong. Not only has the left attacked the costs of not only building the wall, they have poked holes in its value in terms of what it costs to maintain such a wall. Few, if any, have considered the value of a wall in the trade-off of American Liberties. Allow me a moment of your time. The Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution (albeit an illegally ratified Amendment) states: "No state .... deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." Now, follow with me carefully boys and girls. The anti - immigrant lobby contends that since there is a law prohibiting the improper entry into this country, the law is a criminal one. In reality it is not and has been adjudged as a civil offense by the highest immigration officials in the United States. But, let's play along and pretend that improper entry is a criminal act. We already have Constitution Free Zones wherein the Constitution does not apply within a hundred miles of any border. So, the rest of this shouldn't appear to be conspiracy theory. It is legal probability. The same drones and the same surveillance techniques cannot be limited to the border. EVERYBODY is entitled to the equal protection of the laws. EVERY PERSON, according to the 14th Amendment is to be treated equally. Now the immigration authorities can pass over private land without a warrant on the pretext to pursuing so - called "illegal aliens in this wall around the U.S. scenario." With the precedent established, the LEO community can then cross YOUR private property line, regardless of where you live, in order to pursue these so - called "illegal aliens" - and ultimately any person that has allegedly broken a law. Pretty soon, there is no such thing as a Fourth Amendment. Bear in mind that we would not even be having this discussion IF the government had allowed the citizenry to make use of citizen militias and their own efforts to protect private property along the border. Benjamin Franklin once observed that "he who would give up essential Liberty for the promise of temporary Safety deserves neither Liberty nor Safety" clearly understood that once you give up that Liberty, you end up with neither Liberty NOR Safety. The anti - immigrant lobby has never done a Cost / Benefits Analysis of this subject. Maybe you'd be well advised to have that discussion before committing to a destruction of YOUR own Rights. Edit: Save your lefty comments. I've never voted for a liberal nor a Democrat in my nearly four decades of voting.
Has anyone ever explained why illegal immigrants actually hurt the economy? From most of my economics knowledge, they actually help the economy in general, though causing short-term and localized negatives. Besides; illegal immigrants, excepting their initial criminal act, actually break fewer laws than most legal individuals in similar economic situations! We practically ought to be inviting them in! In any case, no, we are not going to build a wall, and no we are not going to get Mexico to pay for it. That is abject nonsense. In case everyone wasn't aware, Mexico is actually a country of it's own, and forcing it to pay for a construction on our land is the height of lunacy; we'd have to go to war for it, and having a war with someone over a wall is complete wretchedness. If just one man, just one woman, or just one child died from trying to build an artifact of stone and concrete, we would be in the red, morally speaking.
My property was being used as a shortcut, so I put up a fence to send a clear message to people cutting across my property. They can still get over it if they really want to, but won't have much excuse if I catch them inside it. Its use is mostly symbolic.
Fences and walls are challenged by people because there is some reward for them on the other side. The only thing better/bigger/longer fences and walls do is to change the "path of least resistance" dynamic to somewhere else along the border, or the Gulf of Mexico or the Pacific ocean. They will still come for the reward, just from a different direction. Only when you make the reward of coming here illegally not worth the risk, will you change the number of fence challengers. There are two ways to do that. 1) greatly increase the risk 2) greatly reduce the reward I've seen the proponents of method one suggest some pretty extreme things; landmines, drone strikes, automated weaponry, deploying the military, etc. All are the same school of thought; greatly increase the risk until the reward is no longer worth it. Proponents of method two suggest making illegal immigrants ineligible to live in this country. No jobs, no education, no healthcare, no government assistance, no anchor-baby citizenship, nothing. I think the solution lies in a balance of the two. It should be really hard to come here illegally, and increasing border enforcement and security is part of that, to include a wall or fence. And if they do, it should be made nearly impossible to remain here illegally. Immediate and consistent deportation once detected completes the package. Make sure they know there is a LEGAL way to immigrate, and how to get that ball rolling, then deal with them more harshly each subsequent time they're caught.
I'm not against a wall per se. Having a continuous wall is not cost effective - have it in areas with the greatest number of border penetrations; new walls or extensions of old walls can be built as needed. The point about guards is to have effective coverage via quick helicopter transportation to active hotspots. You can't rely on walls alone. Drones would be effective because of their long loiter times and ability to track individuals on the ground, not becasue of weapons. In addition drone intel, CCTV feeds, light aircraft spotters, etc. need to be integrated realtime into a highly integrated command-and-control structure similar to that employed by our military.
walls and fences don't stop folks who overstay their Visa. many of our illegal immigrants have overstayed their travel or student Visa. which means they entered the USA legally. no wall or fence can stop that, and since the Conservatives rejected a national worker ID card, its basically impossible to stop this
