garry, I acknowledge the suffering of indigenous Australian, brought upon by white European settlers starting from the 26/01/1788! For that reason I am in favor of shifting the date, so that all Australian (inclusive ingenious Australian) can enjoy our beautiful country. Not much more to say. Sorry you don't like my opinion, regards
Clearly, you wish to pretend you want to be inclusive. Again YOUR comment demonstrates the irony and displays your ignorance of this issue. You say, shifting the date will make people feel more inclusive, I ask how when the confected outrage is pointedly due to being different??? Pretending that it is only inclusive if the date is different due to highlighting the fact of difference is demeaning and insulting. So claiming respectful discussion is denigrated by insult and disrespect. As stated changing the date will only add fuel to the fire as the point the date is issue due to something completely irrelevant to the day simply demonstrates that NO date will please these people several years ago it was nothing to do with the landing of the first fleet but the fact the Indigenous population were not Australian but Aboriginal, now they have found a cause that all pretenders can get behind and clearly show the divisions they wish to create. Clearly the point is lost on you, I would hope you would go forth and study and learn, but do not start from the failure of believing you understand the origins of the issue…
"We swear by the Southern Cross to stand truly by each other and fight to defend our rights and liberties." December-3-a-better-day-for-Australia-day/
You've convinced me. The 3rd of December has to be it. Leading up to Christmas it would be a nice touch!
I forget how many nationalities were known to be represented among the 150, well over 10, and I believe there were some aboriginal diggers. It's were we get the term diggers from, it is said by many to be the true birth of Australian democracy. Lawlor who at the time had a price on his head dead or alive, was within months fully pardoned and elected into the government. Everything Australia stands for today was represented by those few brave men on that hill that Sunday morning.
It makes perfect sense. It certainly will be an angle I'll be coming from when having a chin wag about the date after researching further. Actually I think it needs to be raised with interested politicians. Maybe Mundine or Burney. Appreciate the info!
I thought the term Diggers referred to the trench digging ANZACS at Gallipoli, hence why our returned army soldiers are referred as diggers, even today. I am not disputing the term was used back then, but I was under the impression that the term diggers that we use today was in reference to those from the Gallipoli front.
Well according to what I have read, it is at Eureka the term "Diggers" was coined, adopted by the Anzacs, but I will investigate further I wouldn't want to be knowingly wrong First google Even when I was in the army we were told the term originated in the gold fields
I can say I learnt something new today. Thanks LRL. Do you really believe it had anything to do with the Aborigines though. Considering they were thought of as little more than vermin in that time, and even though we are talking egalitarian, do you really think they were considered among the so called mateship?
There was definitely aboriginals working in the diggings, different groups treat them differently. I remember when I was very young, my uncle was a coal miner, we are talking late 50's early 60's. There were half a dozen Aboriginals also working down there. I remember them joking once, it was one of the few jobs where they all looked the same after 15 minutes. I am not sure, I am going to delve through what records I can find if I am to push this issue i want to be sure, but I have definitely read that
I have no doubt they were put to work there, as for being seen in the same light as those around them, I highly doubt it. They were still shooting them back then for fun, so as for paying them and holding hands with them in a picket line I would be shocked.
Let them have their history, Many make different assertions to the Eureka stockade but this is first time I have seen people proclaim the affectionate term give to Australian troops by other nations was actually self-proclaimed. There was a time, not too long ago, Australians had integrity. I just don’t believe this framing of history has been contrived in that time. Eureka stockade was not some bubbly incident in Australian history but a brutal and bloody affair. I believe much more rigours investigation by people would demonstrate far worse atrocities at these times than they proclaim of the day chosen, which is WHY it was disregarded in the first place. History, gets written and re-written all the time. People need to stop taking the history they like to hear as the reality of the past. It generally isn’t.
Yes you could be right, it will need to be investigated, but I am sure of all the days that are suitable, this is one I believe would be acceptable to most people, except maybe the extreme royalists, but they side with the East Suffolk and 2nd Somersetshire Regiments. In regards to your original statement I concede that you are right. I am happy with this http://www.hereticpress.com/Dogstar/History/Bentley/2005-07.pdf unless I find or am shown better evidence to the contrary.
I agree with most of what you wrote and I am surprised as to how many don't know that the term "Diggers" relates to the gold miners. Many of the men that volunteered to fight the "Great War" were miners basically because they got 3 square meals a day, clothes, blankets and a bed, which was a better option to scratching in the ground with hope to find something. Mechanisation of industry had plunged the world into a depression and unemployment was very high. As a young soldier in the 70's I was fortunate to have talked to quite a few of the survivors. They nearly all talked of not having the slightest idea of what they were getting themselves in for, or even really why. They had no idea that for most they would be lucky to get 3 square meals a week, clothes and blankets would be scavenged from dead comrades and that bed would be any hole they could scratch into the mud and blood among the bodies of those that went forward only minutes ago. There are very few "Glorious Days" in our history, there are many days when significant events occurred. Rather then what happened at the time, it is more important to look at the events that followed, what happened as a consequence. Australia Day represents the day we landed and began colonising what was to become known as Australia. There is absolutely no way anyone can seriously deny that at that time, the land had been inhabited for many many thousands of years. This gives the inhabitants ownership of the land, something we never recognised for nearly 200 years, something some still not do. This dispossession has never really been addressed to this day, many many attempts to address it have been tried and many attempts have been made to deny it. It happened. I read accounts like this .... Now what he meant by the Dowling Forest being taken up was that it was stolen from it's traditional owners and then they (the aboriginals) became the thieves. They had no choice, their hunting and foraging grounds had been stolen. Australia day was the beginning of over 200 years of persecution of, whether you believe rightly or not, the traditional owners of this land for no other reason then our own selfish and greedy pursuits. If at any time the true owners get out of line, we legislate them back into it. Don't like my day, then suggest one, or stick with what we have, it is your decision.
Perhaps we should just choose a day to become a Republic and call that Australia day. Let us face it, if you removed the Union Jack from our flag, what would you be left with? This however would cost a lot of millions, perhaps even billions to achieve. Money that we just do not have to spare at this moment in time. Always worth discussion, and always constructive in the absence of prejudice.
There is many statements made and coined but Australians are not Americans. Australians do not give themselves nick names or labels. The term digger was not labelled to Australia as a literal sense but a metaphorical jibe. Affectionately by fellow soldiers of foreign nationalities and respectfully by enemy combatants. True the literal sense you discuss does stand as, for lack of better, the creation of the term but does is not the real sense. Little bit like the term the lucky country I continue to demonstrate is a lost ideal. If Australia day was about finding a “glory day” to celebrate something completely different intent then you will find none. No matter what date, what particular incident in history, somebody will oppose. You might think that to be cynical, but you have to remember, history is written by the victors, there is always somebody who loses. To them, it is not a glory day. Rarely is history written about a great event. No, I think you hit the nail on the head with your proposal to appease people who wish not to celebrate being Australia, here in this very thread. IF you go deeper you will find the indigenous population of the area was hunted away by the very people you think they stood beside. When I say hunted away, I mean killed to almost extinction in this area. Possibly the first time the indigenous population considered returning fire (stealing weapons) could be found about this region although I would need to dig deep to ascertain if it was Eureka that they fought back at. THAT was the original creation for tensions in the entire affair. But that is another story No, the date the incident will placate nobody. In fact it will create more problems. First by changing the date to begin with will create animosity of those who KNOW and UNDERSTAND what the day is about. IT will create FURTHER animosity with the indigenous population who will dig up the atrocities that occurred ( I talk of a mass grave found in the region) and see this particular change as a serious insult as it will not be just a confected one they claim but a true insult. Also those who are very much ignorant to the true events will find reason to be insulted as those who feel the true insult accuse them of that very ignorance they selected the day from…
I do believe this would be the best idea yet. However, I am sure nobody has actually considered how hard becoming a republic will be. Cost is simply the start, referendum after referendum, recreation of laws to suite republic; seriously this is YEARS in the making. TO all it sounded easy, just vote yes on the referendum and everything will be done. They so quickly forget that their entire political, economic, legal and just way of life are part of their democratic monarchy. It is one reason that gives me pause, other than the serious bashing Australia will get both economically and internationally, I say bring it on tomorrow. I must say though, if you wish to change a day of celebration due to prejudice, how can you discuss it without it??? I do believe you mean respectable discussion and not just insults and dispersions.
Yes of course that is the solution, and MY intention of bringing up a change in Australia day, although spurred on by the general debate in society at present was always going to be brought up as an issue towards a republic.. Becoming a republic should be a lot more than just changing our political structure, our constitution and our laws, if it is to achieve the success we should get, it will need a big change in our attitude as a society. I believe it will be Australia's day of "coming of age", colonisation was never nice, never right, not just ours but all of them. It is theft, armed robber of the weak by the strong. Oh God as a planet I hope we will soon get out of that mindset. We need as a nation, as people, as people that not only have been the custodians of the land for tens of thousands of years, but those that have come, some against their will, some to escape persecution or death, some for a financial benefit. All came hoping for a better life. Whatever brought us here if we weren't here from pre-history, has for the most part in most cases been long forgotten, but why we are here, and where we want to see Australia for our grandchildren, is something we need to examine. Australia Day, Anzac day, The Flag and our Anthem are subjects which come up regularly, they make us think about our values and what we expect as Australians. It is from that pool of thought that a new nation should grow, not an examination of political processes, laws and overseas trade, it should be a reflection of the combined soul of our nation, our heart, not a policy, a piece of legislature or a contract. Then we can get down to business.
Colonisation for better or worse is part of humanity, Australia was just a relatively recent example. It is not a European only thing, any human group with the means to expand has done so. (eg Zulu expansion) Jan 26 is the day British formally laid claim to the Eastern half of Australia, the fleet actaully arrived on the 18th in Botany Bay. I think a possible reason for not choosing 26 Jan is that that it doesn't include Western Australia at all. Trouble is we don't have an obvious alternative to replace the 26th Jan. Maybe if we do sign a treaty with the First Peoples (like NZ) that can be become the national day.
It doesn't matter how many times invasion of others lands occurred it doesn't make it right and cannot be excused.
truthvigilante, My problem is people make like it is exceptional and we should be despised above other peoples for what occurred. However what happened to the Moriori, shows that given the opportunity First Nations could be as ruthless. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moriori As bad as the effects for the Australian First Nations, and it was a horrible and extremely regretable, it is the history of our nation better or worse.
Now they're just excuses once again. We cannot make excuses for what our forefathers did. Jack the Ripper was a serial killer in the 1880's and Ted Bundy in the 1970's. So Jack has excused Ted because a precedence was set? It is a dumb, shallow excuse that I've heard a few times but don't know why people attempt to make light of what has happened trying to excuse one horrific crime for another. It was wrong.....fullstop, no cherries on top or whipped cream to make it taste nicer! So it should be despised because it was wrong!
OK who says they are exceptional, my partner is Koori and she is very strong on these issues, however she would disagree with you on several counts. The exceptional, um I don't know where you have been hiding your head for the last 50 years but first a lot of countries have been given back to their First Peoples, some have fought to get them back, others just want their rights. The Maori, The First Australians, The native Americans. Second, she doesn't despise anyone, she is sad that we hide from the truth, a truth EVERYONE knows, just face it, and get over it, most people really wouldn't care if it was changed except a few rednecks.
I hate replying to you, as you don't respect Aboriginal People and their consequent suffering. You always find words to get around acknowledging what everyone knows. An Australian Day celebrated by all Australian makes only sense, if all can enjoy it. Now several people have pointed out to you, why Abos cannot enjoy it. The 26/01 marks the day, they lost their land, often lives, but definitely their future. If you can't reach out to them, I have to say that is very unaustralian. The 26/01 means a completely different world to them. Reg.
