Being gay vs being homosexual

What is wrong is that science is denigrated ,according to the SCIENTIFIC BASED ,Kinsey Report approx 10% of humans are what pee-brains who cannot or will not understand human sexuality as a "SPECTRUM" ,get the big book of words ,so when you educate yourselves on what is sexuality ,oh no don't tell me ,HAVE YOU EVER HAD SEX AND HOW OLD ARE YOU?

oh dear Gallop Polls determine what you see as truth ,oh dear oh my ,fantastic a whole analysis based on a Gallop poll.AND WHO WOULD BE THE TOTALLY IGNORANT TROLL,you whistle and I will point .

polling has about as much ,SCIENTIFIC VALUE as talking to the Catholic church about Child abuse .

Gallup polls as a substitute to hard scientific research OK ,WHO COMMISIONED THE POLL JUST TO START???????

Gallup poll verses fully peer reveiwed science ,OK ,get educated as the school system doesn't or are you home schooled on the Internet?

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&r...kYDwDg&usg=AFQjCNFcSjtgyvX5Y1k71Y3FjpgnoabFqA

Whats this an Anti troll device called a LINK,please use !

oh dear mum the big bad communist has Science on his side ,I have a Gallup poll!

Quote"approx.10% of American males see themselves as EXCLUSIVELY HOMOSEXUAL,you do read don't you??????

6000 subjects and the most extensive research in history v\s a single Gallup poll question ,surrender to science YET????????

 

Natural attraction is not the only way attraction can come about. People can fall in love without a natural physical attraction and learn to overlook it to be together.

Also, there it is known that external forces can alter sexual orientation. A man who grew up with a abusive mother, for example, could, in his subconscious, blame his mother's abuse on her being a woman, and not her bieng a peice of trash. This could make him grow to resent woman in general. If he resents woman, his body could adapt to this change in his emotional spectrum and stop sexual reactions to women. He could grow closer to his father, and the closeness of his relationship to his father, coupled with his mistrust and resentment of women could cause him to seek companionship from men instead of women. This could result in not only emotion attraction, but sexual attraction as his body adapts to these changes.

 

Gallup surveyed 121,290. 20 times MORE than kinsey. And of the 6000 Kinsey interviewed, "25% were, or had been, prison inmates, and 5% were male prostitutes"

 

and arrived at the number of 3.2% of all adults practice an alternative sexual lifestyle be it gay sex or cross dressing. It is a far cry from the percentage the OP is trying to claim as fact.

 

You are aware that English changes. Or did you think Shakespeare was jamming to tunes in his iPod?

In that case

nd it was don aftirward, and Jhesus made iourney bi citees and castels, prechynge and euangelisynge þe rewme of 2God, and twelue wiþ hym; and sum wymmen þat weren heelid of wickid spiritis and sijknessis, Marie, þat is clepid Maudeleyn, of whom seuene deuelis 3wenten out, and Joone, þe wijf of Chuse, þe procuratoure of Eroude, and Susanne, and many oþir, þat mynystriden to hym of her ritchesse. Luke 8.

I'm sure that your Bible still sounds like that, because languages never ever change.

As we've said 100 times, gay and lesbian are culture, and in the strict sense, there is nothing for science to say about a culture. All of them, every last one of them, including Austrailian culture is arbitrary. There is nothing scientific about Americans liking American Football, or Japan liking tea or British monarchs pretending to jump out of a helicopter with a fictional member of MI6. There's nothing scientific that says that brides should wear white or that they should wear dresses. Culture is completely arbitrary. Try reading a bit (http://www.zompist.com/amercult.html) -- everything from the way we write our dates to the distances we stand from other people varies. So how is it that there is no gay culture? Scots have a culture, Manchester United has a culture, Wal-Mart has a culture. It's a normal process to get people together and have a culture.


I am not the Boss of you Middle class Gay person or supporter of ignorance, without even the most basic of intellectual standards YOU!

wouldn't masturbation be having sex with yourself? There's usually only one person in the room. Unless it's different in Austrailia.

anyother definition ,particularly the ones gay and lesbian which denote more Gender based ,because newsflash gay is the male version of Lesbian which are even in this crude use of language to mean ,MALE AND FEMALE ,yes you guessed it HOMOSEXUALS!

notice how much the metapysician tries they cannot break the scientific so therefroe objectively TRUE homosexual ,bisexual hetrosexual ,dare i say it PARADIGM![/QUOTE]

 

I got cut off, but the other thing, at least in America, we love to form political identities. Your position on any one of thousands of issues, including whether a given issue should be political at all is fodder for the formation of your political identity. We are the people of identity politics, which is why you'll hear the American press talk about various demographic groups -- down to "soccer moms" and "angry white males" -- and how they shape the outcome of the election. Why not gayness as well? If you can form a political identity based on whether or not your son is on the CYC soccer team, why not gay and straight?

Personally I think we have too many political identities. Just shut up and be American, or Austrailian in your case. Relax, have a beer, and don't worry so much.

 

Great response!

 

That is an Amazing statement and tells me how much damage these sick Politically putrid fascist Anti-Science thunkers called the "gay and lesbins" have done ,no wonder the mass murderer and head of US Imperialism gave them special mention in his victory speech,Barak Obama .

If one wishes to speak of a Community comprising real flesh and blood humans then the Homosexual community comprises approx 10% of all humanity that includes Males and females and can only be seen as a Human sexuality the same and equal to with Bisexuality and hetrosexuality .


now the percentage of Homosexuals that are for the Nutty ,Cultural Identity Post-modernist school of neo-fascist ideology is in my estimate currently ,the Homosexual memberhip of the 'Rainbow alliance " a number about ,0.000001% of the Homosexual population. oh and add 1 reactionary president of the USA .

Gay and lesbian are political constructs of the middle class radical mileu that infests the university campuses ,saying falsly that theyare "progressive " or "Socialist " even and nothing could be further from the truth.


These people in the "Gay and lesbian " community of middle class radicals are too Guttless to form a political party ,they ty to create political provocations ,stirring up trouble where none existed bfore ,EG,gay and lesbian Marriage ,its not a mass movemnt of Homosexuals for Marriage in fact because of the Biggotry and prejudice that the churchs and society has dished out in the past ,99.99% of Homosexuals couldn't give a tinkers cuss about Marriage just like most Bisexuals and hetrosexuals.

But then comes along middle class radical and creates a provocation and sows confusion ,like Gay is a sexuality ,when it is NOT ,or Lesbia is a gender based sexual orientation which it is not ,the od they attack in describing human sexuality is Homosexual funny that ,they say ,no we will not wear the label that the ,Hetro-sexual oppressors put on us ,No its not a lable its a scientific based description of human sexuality thats all ,not a political hing at all Homosexuality ,and the socilaists like me the ral ones would like to keep it like that!

Always remember ,marriage is a religious Rite ,NOT A democratic RIGHT,note the word has same sound 2 different meanings .

So in short the Right wing near fascistic Gay and lesbian movement comprises about ,0.0000001% of he general Homosexual popu;ation which comprises 10% OF THE GENERAL HUMAN PoPULATION


hUMANS CHOOSE POLITICALLY O BE GAY OR lESBIAN ,hOMOSEXUALITY IS NOT A CHOICE ITS PART OF hUMAN SEXUALITY DETERMINED AT BIRTH WITH NO CHOICE INVOLVED .

Ps watch them as they try to redefine perfectly pre defined concepts and words ,for thm its gay confused ,not Homosexual and accurate.

 

Yes great response ,totally devoid of SCIENTIFIC content ,ignorant ,phillistine and jut plain wrong in such a post-modernist extrastenchalist way {without any evidence in fact anti-evidence metaphysics"

What does numbnut not say again ,oh the cause of Human sexuality is Unknown is it ,when you did creationism in school ,did they tell you that ?

Well guess what the SCIENCE OF EVOLUTIONARY BIOLOGY ,knows so if you would like to catch up with the rest o educat humnity and accep scientific thinking not life style choice thinking or middle class Nonthink about anything or anyone but my Gay middle class self .

All humans aliv nd dead and to be born ,WILL with 100% not 99.999% ,100% certainty be ,Homosexual ,bisexual or hetro-sexual in their being as human .Not a single one will be born gay or lesbian as Every human that defines thmselves as Such CHOOSES TO DO SO,remember the days and years before you defined yourself as 'Gay ".


Oh those sexual urges or attractions or orientations are things called sexuality ,not lifestyle choice .Some humans are same sex attracted and thy are born that way its called Homosexuality ,some humans are opposite sex attracted and they are born hetrosexual ,and ome of us including me are attracted to boh sexes and thats called Bisexuality and every human that was ever was or will be inthe future fall within these Catagories .


Its called science and its true think because it is based on evidence and observation as nature is not how we wish to Identify ourselves ,a human who says they are 'gay and lesbian " as gender or sexuality is a Liar or stupid or Uneducated.

 

Why do gay and Lesbian identifiers hate science ,when all Transexual are eiher ,Homosexual ,Bisexual or Hetrosexual ,when all same sex attracted are Homosexual,both sex attracted = bisexual [not gay nor lesbian ]and yes the ONLY OTHER SEXUALITY ,sex attraction or lust for ,Opposite =Hetrosexual .


Secrets out when you see "Gay" read Homosexual,or nutty lifestyle chooser.


All Gays and lesbians are Homosexual yet not all homosexuals are Gay or Lesbian in fact hardly any ,gay is a fashion here to day ,gone ommorow ,in fact its 1980's sexual fashion,and cliched to death ,bring back the "Village People with YMCA ,I am Homosexual Not gay. "


Oh if you want to know the name of the Political party that is promoting this rubbish its called the International Socialist Organisation ,or ISO for short ,and nothing "Socialist nor Progressive" about them .

Is Barak Obama a "gay cultural Icon" yet?

 

HOnestly, GAY is the community, it's the culture. It's like talking about fans of Manchester United or something, they're a subset of people with a same sex attraction, just like Man United fans are a subset of soccer fans. That's what it is. You can talk about man United fans separate from soccer fans without negating either one or interchanging them. Gays are a subset of homosexuals. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subset -- if you don't get the concept of subsets) It's not complicated logic.

I'm not sure what you mean by this one. As I said gays would be a subset of the entire world wide population of homosexuals. It's a culture, and not necessarily a politcal one. It's simply the way a subset of American homosexuals interact with each other. It's not any more political than other American subcultures, like goths or trekkies or bikers -- all of which are subcultures that have their own ways of finding and interacting with each other. Not all trekkies form some kind of trekkie political party or even a lobby, because not all trekkies are into politics.

But another thing to understand about the US is that we have 2 mainstream parties, with a few minor parties that have very little chance of winning a national election. So almost no group in the US forms a political party -- you either lobby the Democrats or the Republicans, because you can't just form a new new party and have it win. I'd like to have more political parties, as I'm Libertarian, and I think we need to have some Libertarians in power. But minor parties are shut out in the US. Asking why American gays don't form a political party is like asking why the Chinese don't form an opposition party and run against the Communist party -- the system doesn't work that way. So the Rainbow guys you're talking about are most likely the political lobby for the gay culture, kinda like the Electronic Frontier Foundation is the lobby for computer geeks. A subset of a subset, therefore a small group.

I explained the lack of a gay political party. America has two main parties. We don't form new parties so often as we form lobbying groups, like the EFF, AARP (retired people), VFW (Veterans of Forgein Wars), NARAL (abortion rights), NOW (National Organization for Women, AKA Feminists), and so on. we even have one for legalization of marijuana (NORML, I think is the name). As for wanting marriage, I think it has to do with the desire to form permanent relations and have them recognized by the wider society, survivor benefits and next-of-kin rights being dependent on the ability to form a family, as well as the marriage tax benefits that would come from being able to file tax returns as a married couple rather than two single people. For a very few, there's the issue of wanting to raise kids either their own or adopted, but I think that's somewhat rarer.

Again, you're being imprecise in your terms. Gay/Lesbian is the culture, it's a subset of all homosexuals. All gays are homosexual, but not all homosexuals are gay. Both are labels, but they describe different things. Gay/Lesbian is the culture, homosexuality is the sexual orientation that gays have. Some members of the gay subculture reject the label of homosexual, but even then, it seems to be more along the lines of the reason that a First Nations person might reject the label "Indian" or an African American might reject the term "Negro", both of which were used to describe human races in the past. I don't see a problem with not using those terms in casual conversation. That's reasonable I think.

Well, that's true enough, however, the US government does marry people, it's called a civil marriage, and you stand before the Justice of the Peace to say your vows, rather than a priest. Plus, the US government does provide benefits to all people it recognizes as married, which is another sticking point here. I wouldn't want the state to force churches to marry people who their bibles say cannot marry, but when you're talking about a civil marriage issued by the Justice, recognized by the state and having nothing to do with any church, it's a different thing. And getting the state to legally recognize the marriages that some churches do for gay people (even if you do get a church marriage, the state doesn't recognize it unless that marriage is legal as defined by the state), is hardly a stretch.

You're just confused about what we mean by our words -- in a sense, no one disagrees with you that people choose to be gay, but not for the reason you think. It's the culture, and it's different than a sexuality. We agree on this, I've never heard anyone argue that identification with a subculture is biological. I disagree that is primarily political, it's mostly a self identification thing, a culture that they like. I disagree on the language thing as well -- languages change all the time, usually it starts as slang, then it becomes a mainstream word or a new meaning to an old word. Guy started as a slang term now it's a dictionary term. Languages change.

 

Just to be clear: Ministers, priests, etc. can act on behalf of government in the USA by witnessing the consent, completing the license, "by the power vested in my by the State of _____" etc.) There is no requirement to go before a Justice of the Peace in order to be civilly married, though many people do in lieu of having a church wedding.

The word "homosexual" is another example itself, having been "made up" from the Greek "homo" and Latin "sexual", perhaps around the 1880s. Havelock Ellis characterized it as a "barbarously hybrid word". The fact it has enjoyed long use in the mental health profession, which used to attempt to cure it in some pretty horrible ways, does not make it a "better" word than 'gay'. The English language doesn't really have a properly descriptive word for it; we're instead stuck with the descriptive but awkward construction of "same-sex orientation", or the frankensteinian (frankensteinesque?) word "homosexual", cobbled together from two languages that aren't even in the same family; a word that conjures up images of electroshock, aversion 'therapies', etc.

 

okay, gay and homosexual, if used in the common way, (you know, the connotative meaning, not the denotative which last time i checked most people don't use) are both synonyms. which signifies they are the same word more or less. now, the question originally was how many people are gay (born) and how many people chose to be gay. i can answer this with complete experience in the matter, as a homosexual transgendered citizen, and i would like to tell you that no sane person would choose this. do you think anyone in their right mind would choose to be gay. do you think that a person would wake up, get out of bed, and choose to be discriminated against by a huge percentage of the worlds population? do you think that a person would willingly risk losing all they have, all the relationships they've formed, their job, and their social status simply because they want attention? (i'm assuming you think that's why they would be a "chosen" homosexual) because i can tell you, we don't choose this. we might take pride in our homosexuality, but isn't that our right? everyone else gets to take pride in their sports teams, their race, their city, their country, and many heterosexuals i know take pride in being born heterosexual, so why can't homosexuals take pride in our homosexuality?
also, i'd like to say, stop arguing over the literal meaning of words. we all know what someone means when they say gay, when they say homosexual and when they throw other terms around. gay isn't offensive to me, or any other gay person i know, it's just easier to say than homosexual. -thank you for your time

 

Your are trapped in a 20th century minset. Its a new world.

 

Homosexuality is not a choice. It is not a lifestyle. It is a type of sexual orientation, something that no individual can control. It is a trait, a quality inherent in one's very being.

The only choice is to be honest about it. The lifestyle of a gay person is either a life of openness and honesty or a life of closeted dishonesty. It think it is clear which lifestyle society should promote. Be who you are and be that well--never be who you are not because others lack empathy.

 

Whatever it takes you to get through your day.

 

stick to the unverifiable "I was born gay" stance and call anyone ignorant or a homophobe if they question it.

 

as opposed to the unverifiable " being gay is a choice" stance?

 

So heterosexuals are born heterosexual. And homosexuals choose to be homosexual.

Makes sense, in bizzaro world.

 

That's what makes me laugh. Basically heterosexuality is completely natural and homosexuality is completely unnatural. And - so they say - people choose to be gay and deviate from nature after they are born straight. Even though people like myself have literally NEVER been physically attracted to females. When my childhood friends started talking about girls, I was thinking about boys... >_>

I think MOST people are compelled naturally to be heterosexual, in the same way one can be compelled naturally to be homosexual. Obviously sexuality is linked to gender and something has happened biologically that has altered that. Maybe something in the womb? Who knows...

 

I can only speak for myself. I knew I was homosexual before I knew the word gay or homosexual.

I know and have spoken to many people who have had that same experience.

Because of that I agree and believe that homosexuality is in born.

 

I think you need to separate the CULTURE which is arbitrary from the sexual orientation which is natural. There's nothing natural about any culture. There's nothing in nature that makes all homosexual people act alike. Gay is an American thing -- Iranians aren't doing the same things Americans are doing. If you look worldwide, there's not a single homosexual culture. To say not acting gay is a lie isn't necessarily so -- homosexuality is natural to some individuals, but a culture is arbitrary. I think conflating the two is every bit as dishonest as proclaiming that American culture is the same thing as human nature -- it's how homosexuality works in America, which has jack-all to do with China, India, Pakistan, or anyplace else on Earth. Do you honestly think there are gay-pride parades in Pakistan or Iran? Do you think that Chinese homosexuals lisp like Americans? It's culture, and it's probably more about America than homosexuality.

 

I know the Word science is not very popular in GBLTIQ America and something in the Gay Brained is stopping it ,so what you are saying let me get this right ,is that Gallup polling is more scientific because more ignorant American Gay people talked to them with predetermined questions written for predetermined outcomes ,see Kinsey wasn't about a check list of Questions ,Behavioural observation were also involved ,and are you telling me that sexuality is for nice middle class people and those "dirty criminal" types are other then HUMAN?

Put the stinking prejudice ,any "distortions " of the report were found to be statistically non-existant ,Kinsey =Science ,Gallup =Pop Quiz,I hope the difference is clear ,like the Garbage of creationism is total crap ,you do recognise that ,and millions actually believed the Earth flat ,yes I rekon if a Gallup poll asking does the sun revolve around the Earth Most Americans polled would say YES! dosen't make them Right ,crickey some think that America is a United Nation ,But dosen't make it so.

Pop Quiz vs Scientifically varified and peer reveiwed and confirmed knowledge.

Do you think Santa is true because 60 % of 7year olds polled said Yes.

Your funny!

 

it is unverifiable....just like the "i was born gay" That's why both arguments have such weight.

You tell me that I'm just supposed to accept a gay's notion that he/she was born that way without any consideration given to the fact that they have a vested interest in me thinking they don't have a choice inthe matter.

yet, when I say "it's a choice" you dismiss it because I have vested interest that I want people to believe they can choose to be gay.

 

I make decisions everyday not to suck a cawk.... or take it up the butt

I'm attracted to skinny girls, but every so often, I'll bang a fat one too. Doesn't mean I was born a skinny chaser, or a chubby chaser..