Being Poor is NOT a virtue!

We may disagree on some things but I congratulate you on this! At least we still have some people in this country who take responsibility for themselves.

 

40,000 bucks a year is not by ANY means poor?? (Directed at the OP). Also, you CHOSE to have kids and everything, which is not my fault.

I'm a single college student and I live on roughly 8,000 bucks a year. Yeah, that's right. That's all I spend. The rest is in savings.

Now THAT'S what you call being efficient with spending your money.

 

The fact that you can't separate empirical data from anecdotal observations leads me to believe that you are not, in fact, wealthy.

http://www.jstor.org/pss/40037226

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3626/is_200710/ai_n25139927/

 

This is just a fringe example meant to muddy the waters. The fact of the matter is that only a tiny percentage of people are out there making 15k a year and getting cancer at the same time. If we only had to help THOSE people, the people who TRULY need assistance from society, we'd be spending 10% of what we do now on safety nets. Instead, we have a bunch of lazy losers who demand a lifestyle they don't deserve simply because of populist demagoguery that conditions them to blame others for their sorry lot in life.

Alexander Hamilton left home when he was thirteen because his mother died and became one of the most successful people in history because he was expected to act like a man by that age. Nowadays, a fourteen year old boy is nothing more than an over-grown toddler who couldn't find his way out of a wet paper bag, let alone sale from port to port finding gainful employment!

We are becoming a nation of wimps and babies. There are SOME people who really do get a rotten lot in life, and I doubt very much that people would begrudge helping them, but those people represent only a tiny minority of individuals. The vast majority of people in this country are where they are because that's exactly what they deserve!

 

where did I say it was 'easy'?? I just said that 40K is not POVERTY. get over yourself, and maybe we could have a conversation!

 

Well, you can be as frugal as I am if not more so and still not make enough to live on if there are so few jobs that you have no job.

In reality, the worse the economy is, the less jobs there are available. Sure there are always "jobs out there to be gotten", but if there are 10 million people who need jobs and, due to outsourcing etc., only 1 million, or 100,000, jobs to be gotten, and if most of those jobs require a college degree to get (and said college degrees cost so much money to get, because of tuition, fees, books etc., that most of these 10 million people could never afford it)...

You see my point? This whole thing about everyone getting a job if only they want one is a little unrealistic if employers are making it unrealistic for most people to get a job.

 

And what percentage of the population has debilitating allergies like your mom and your brother? 1% 0.5%? Probably less!

 

He never said it was your fault. He specifically said he doesn't want any handouts from anyone.

Good on you. Too bad more people in this country aren't like you.

 

the leftist elite don't 'like' poor people, they view them as cattle to be used to further their aims. I have found that conservatives are much more sympathetic and helpful...and they view the poor as individuals instead of groups. (for the most part, I have run into conservatives that were meanspirited too)

 

I'm not even an above average person in this respect. MOST people in these positions are fairly frugal. If they weren't they'd starve.

Maybe we wouldn't have to be this resource-frugal if overpopulation wasn't making it so that Malthus' Law was becoming a manifested reality for our current human population...if you know what I'm talking about.

 

because we don't live in the same world?

the basics are still correct, but there is no shame to being at any of those stages, IMO....it is the ones that won't even be a worker at all that is the problem to me. Working for someone for a living is not a bad thing; not everyone is cut out to be a business owner.

 

What are you laughing at? Everything I said was totally factual. Is infantile laughing the only thing you can resort to when presented with factual information?

The FACT of the matter, Dave, is that only a tiny, tiny percentage of people in this country suffer from the kind of devastating calamities you speak of, yet, for some reason, you want to pretend like it's most people when it clearly is not.

You also want to pretend that generations past didn't deal with circumstances DAILY that would have confounded and crippled our pampered populace today.

Why do you want to pretend, Dave? Why don't you come back to reality with the rest of us?

 

I see ads for job openings ALL THE TIME. They are usually entry level positions in large corporations, but they are out there and widely available. For anyone with a lick of common sense and work ethic, there are advancement opportunities within these companies. As an example, about 70% of Wal-Mart executives started out in entry-level positions. Employers aren't looking for a degree, necessarily, they're looking for someone who isn't a lazy jerk; someone who will work hard, keep their head down, and stick with the company. Heck, how many Fortune 500 CEO's and billionaires never even got a college degree? Plenty!

 

Like you said, it's not my fault you and these people want to go to college. There's nothing stopping you from moving to a place of low population density and living on 25K for the rest of your life. It can be done. There's nothing stopping you.

 

I knew you would say that. Basically, "there are always a 'lot' (whatever "a lot" means) of job openings, therefore no individual that isn't a lazy retard should have a job no matter what happens to the economy".

In reality, you refuse to look at numbers, which are infallable. Numbers which prove that it is, simply, absolutely mathematically impossible for everyone that is mentally and physically able, to get a job. Impossible.

You might see "job openings ALL THE TIME" but you narrow-mindedly refuse to even acknowledge that for every THOUSAND job openings there are in the entire country, there are at least 10 thousand people looking for jobs! (Obviously not an exact figure but my point is that there are far more people who need jobs, than there are available ones).

Do you even acknowledge that there are many TIMES more people who need jobs, than there are jobs available?

 

Well I mean, there is a job paucity among engineers (I will source that if you ask, but I'd have to find it again), and I do have the cognitive and otherwise ability to become one, so why would I or the rest of civilization want to waste my abilities doing an entry-level job?

Now, there are TONS of lame blunderers that get degrees in things like psychology, english, philosophy of all things, art etc. who do NOTHING with those degrees and waste their time and money. I am not one of those people, so your arguments have nothing to do with me.

Did you go/are you going to/do you plan on going to college yourself?

 

Yes, this is my premise. Here in Chicago, virtually every Subway, Wal-Mart, Target, McDonald's, etc., etc., I walk into has job openings. There's lots of jobs out there.

No, you have my premise right but not my conclusion. Obviously, some people will not be able to obtain employment because of circumstances beyond their control. The point, though, is that if ONLY these people, the ones who really cannot help their situation, were the only ones we were expected to help with safety nets, we'd be spending 10% of what we do now on welfare. Instead, we pretend like these poor souls are representative of virtually everyone and consequently waste billions of dollars a year paying for some lazy bum to sit on their butt procreating and watching cable TV.

Well, DUH! Who said otherwise?

Show me seem numbers and then we can talk. Until then, it's nothing more than speculation.

I will, however, concede that "full employment" is virtually impossible to attain, but my contention was never that EVERYONE could find a job. I've already admitted that SOME people will not be able to find a job because of circumstances beyond their control.

 

I have always though a small garden for folks on asst. it would also give some responsibility and work ethic to some.

some 24 year olds could be described like that. I would imagine there are 14 year olds that could make their way

 

I'm not telling you do anything! If you want to become an engineer, more power to you! Just don't complain when you're eating Ramen noodles for four years and squeaking by on 8K. That's a choice you're making.

Of course, but you mentioned the "average person" and I would contend that the "average person" is NOTHING like you. They are not trying to obtain an engineering degree and squeaking by on 8k a year.

I'm a junior at a private university in Chicago. I'm getting my biology degree and applying to medical school next year.

 

To Dave:

Hamilton's success was a fringe example, but the conditions he overcame were not. Plenty of people in those days overcame situations that would seem utterly hopeless to the average wimp living today, and they did it without the nanny state holding their hands. THAT was my point and you are obtusely ignoring it in the hopes of avoiding the obvious.

 

I agree. I would also contend that many forty year olds could be described like that. We are becoming a nation of pampered wimps.

 

No, you said it wasn't poor. Those two terms are not synonymous. I am poor but I refuse to be in poverty. Poverty is a mindset and those mired in it will never escape its grasp, no matter what the income level is.

 

I'd have to search for the figures about how many times more people there are who need jobs, than jobs available, but I see you realize it's an issue.

I think with more efficiency (specifically resource efficiency) as well as responsible reproduction (namely, not having 5 kids when you have the income to support one or two), and limiting employer/capitalist tyranny, that problem could fade away over time. That'd be a miracle

 

Correct.

The average college student is, unless they have their personal subsidizing program, i.e. their wealthy parents. Some of us don't.

How much does that cost a year in tuition, books etc.? Private schools are insanely expensive due to the fact that a lot of rich kids with rich parents exist, so I'm sure it's ridiculous.

 

I'm glad you dug your way out of poverty. I know what you mean about the system trapping people. I have a lot of friends and family who have stayed trapped in poverty. Government programs are not designed to help people get out of poverty, they are designed to keep them in it. That is why I disagree with so many arguments that claim that people who are against government handouts hate the poor. Many of us just want something better for them and realize that they need some incentive to improve their lot.

I will argue about healthy eating being expensive. It is true that fresh fruits tend to be expensive and prepared, fried foods are cheap, but that doesn't mean healthy eating has to be expensive. Rice is cheap, pasta is cheap, potatoes are cheap, canned and frozen vegetables are cheap, chicken is cheap, fish is cheap. A person can eat quite well on very little, and can have plenty of variety if they are willing to actually cook. The problem is usually that people don't bother cooking and eat prepared foods, most of which are very unhealthy.