Biden to spend Thanksgiving at billionaires Nantucket home

I don’t know what line of work you work in, but that’s not how it works for many people. Take the military for example. You don’t bargain for a raise. It comes with time. I’m a contractor now, and you sure as hell can’t bargain for a raise in this line of work either.

 

I mentioned the rich because the left (especially the “progressive” left) apparently hates the rich. They scream that loud and proud too. Don’t pretend otherwise. Yet here you are, essentially scolding the working class. I find that pathetic, and I know I’m not the only one who does. Are the Democrats for the working class or not? If they are, why are you giving them a pass here? The working class is hurting right now and it’s Joe Biden’s fault. Stop dancing around that. Millions of us are getting screwed at the gas pumps and in the grocery stores. And surprise, surprise, my healthcare premium just went up too. The benefits didn’t change, the price just went up.

 

Freakin 50 years in political office and this is the best he can do? It’s pathetic, isn’t it?

 

You will certainly hear lots of shouting and rhetoric but the reality behind that is more complex and nuanced so to interpret that as everyone on "the left" (more specifically, everyone you say are on the left) hates the rich is a gross oversimplification. It's not as if this is a left-only issue anyway. People on "the right" are often (falsely) accused of hating foreigners, scientists or non-whites for much the same reasons. They're opposite sides of the same coin (which was part of my point in my initial response).

How did I scold anyone? I'm just pointing out facts. I didn't say anything about the "working class" - it's not a term I generally use as I don't think the distinction it used to represent really applies any more.

That wasn't the topic of the thread though, it was about accusing Biden of hypocrisy for having Thanksgiving with a billionaire despite (purportedly) hating rich people. That's what addressed in the bulk of my initial response, you chose to ignore that and focus on the side point.

Nobody is stopping you from starting a thread about inflation, it's underlying causes and (probably more importantly) how it should be responded to. This thread was never that though.

 

Now you can't realistically expect them to drop that, it's ALL they've got.

 

Since when do “Trumpers” believe they shouldn’t pay any taxes? The Bible itself says to pay your debts and your taxes. Ludicrous claim there. The problem is, is that Democrats would tax us at 80% if they had it their way. Taxes are too damn HIGH. You shouldn’t lose nearly half your income in taxes. Who on earth votes to see more of their paycheck disappear? Can somebody explain that one? Christ… the left are nuts.

 

It's going pretty good thanks and likewise I hope the same for you as well and that you had a good thanksgiving.

My raises--as you may recall I was union--were contractual, however the labor agreement provided consideration for merit increases upon request and also contained a COLA clause (we used to call it "Santa Claus") so we kept up with inflation. On a couple of occasions I received a merit raise as well. I should also mention that I was private and not public sector.

 

incoming CNN video featuring Don Lemon crying about racist Trump...

 

In the military you sign a contract when you enlist (correct me if I'm wrong) so I would agree in the military you are stuck between a rock and a hard place. I'm talking more private sector where there is a lot more flexibility to grant raises as opposed to the public sector. As for being a contractor, I believe you determine what you pay yourself out of the profits.

 

You’re really reaching here. I would agree with you in some circumstances, but certainly not the majority. If you have a rare skill-set or something, you could potentially shop what you are worth and ask for more money. That is not the case for the average person in this country. If a job is posted offering $17 an hour, then it’s $17 an hour. You aren’t milking more out of them.

 

Like I said To be more accurate, once at the top of the pay scale and I needed more money I found a better job until eventually I went in to business for myself.. But your reality sounds like OK for like Mc Donalds of some minimum wage gig. I bet it doesn't work in a union environment or Gov/civil JOB..

 

LOL one or the other is groveling, especially if all employees are paid at the same at the same grade/scale

 

Since you leave out pertinent facts like your belonging to a Union, for which you get to pay for the privilege, that all the way up to gross incompetence gets raises. Personally, I wouldn't be so proud of including myself in that designation.

I've never encountered anyone who has 'groveled' for a raise. You present your case, why the raise needs to be considered, and this is if you haven't already been given a raise for the same merits. I don't count that as 'groveling' it's called acting like an adult, rather than hiding behind a screen of paid representatives who aren't doing anything for you that you couldn't do on your own.

 

Your anti-unionism is duly noted.

Because someone is represented by a union for purposes of collective bargaining should not matter whether or not they get a raise outside the contract. I've outlined in this thread that I've never had to grovel or beg for a raise; why you raise the issue of gross incompetence has nothing to do with it since we know that companies whose management hires employees always make sure that the employees are properly vetted prior to hiring (if the employer does their jobs properly) so incompetence should never be an issue brought up. Glad to hear that you are proud to include yourself in that designation so I'm sure we'll never hear from you that you need a raise due to the cost of inflation.

So if you "act like an adult" not hiding behind the screen of a "paid" representative and go in to inquire about a raise and are rejected, then you can do without a raise but at least you acted like an adult even though your purchase power becomes less and less over time. When you say "Paid Representative" is there any other? Or are people supposed to volunteer and work for nothing?

Btw if you took the time to read through the threads here you'll find that not only did I receive a regular pay increase each year and COLA a couple of times, I've also received merit increases because our labor contract permits above scale increases to employees the company feels goes above and beyond what the employee is expected to do in their job. So being in a union does not restrict you to one pay scale for life.

 

We've argued the union subject many times, so 'noting' it brings no surprise.

Unless it can be proven that a person has acted in gross incompetence, the employer can't get rid of Union employees, only the Union can. That doesn't do well when the employee should be removed, rather than just disciplined by the Union.

If I should need a raise, I'll go ask, but it won't be based on the cost of inflation, it will be based on what I have provided for the company. I have been told 'not right now' on occasion, and given the reasons why. Usually, it has to do with how the company is doing at that time, and a time frame is given when it will be considered.

Entry level employees usually provide the 'I've been offered another job' as a starter point, and if they are worth keeping, a raise will be offered. By no stretch of imagination has anyone begged or groveled. If they don't get the raise, they either stay and accept what they are being paid, or find another job.

Nothing that you have posted as blessings from the Union, cannot be had without the Union. And you don't have to pay the Union to receive them.

 

I don't know what union you belonged to, but in my union, you can be discharged for "just cause" just that the company has to appear before an arbitrator to prove their case. Among things you can and will be discharged for (and the union could not prevent it) would be dishonesty, gross incompetence, violence in the workplace, unauthorized absence and other things of similar magnitude.

If you need a raise, you go see your boss and if he thinks you deserve one that's great, however if you go 5 years without a raise that's going to impact negatively on your financially. If they decide to cancel your health plans, you have no say in the matter and if you don't like it, go find another job. Just that sometimes people cannot afford to go look for another job or have commitment's which make it next to impossible to look for another job. You maintain that no one has begged or groveled for a raise; unless you were in the room with the employee you have no idea. On the other hand, I've spoken with some people (who worked in non-union shops) who told me they literally "begged" for a raise only to be turned down, yet the boss (who has a signed labor agreement) gets a raise every year in addition to bonuses as spelled out in his "contract". Why does the boss need a contract and the employees don't? I forgot, you can trust the company, they'd never do you wrong.

You claim that nothing I've posted as "blessings" from the union cannot be had without the union. I beg to differ; when you work non-union, you work at the pleasure of the company and they can terminate your business relationship with them for almost every reason or no reason if they so choose and you have no recourse but to suck it up and look for another job. They decide your raise--how much you get and when--if you receive one at all. They determine all the terms and conditions of employment as well.

A union contract spells out all the terms and conditions of employment--that both sides bargained for- and both the union and company are honor bound to abide by what was agreed to. You know when you're are going to get your raise, how much it'll be and other terms that were agreed to so you can plan financially. But it would appear that you have bought into the mantra spewed out by companies who are anti-union since they are deathly afraid of their employees collectively bargaining. You and others choose to live that way, that's your business, but don't condemn or belittle others who believe in the collective bargaining system because most of us have a much better way of life then our non-union counterparts.

Finally, unless you believe in slavery, people who work for the union have bills to pay and need to support their families, so yes, when you join a union there are dues to pay so the union can hire and properly pay people to work for them. Economics 101.

 

I've never belonged to a Union, but I have dealt with them. Having to pay someone for 8 hours of work when they were only needed and present for 4 (which was known from the get go), while they stood and watched OUR non-Union people do the actual work, along with donations to assorted 'funds' for the privilege of being able to tout the job as being Union. It's called extortion by some.

Even in a At-Will State, if you terminate someone without just cause, you end up paying unemployment. While the State may cut the check, the value is charged to your State account, and affects your chargeable ratio for years. So, it's not to an employers benefit to discharge someone 'just because'. Won't stop some from doing it, I'm sure.

I view Union groups as having had their time and place when they were a benefit. That time is done and gone, and pretty much Labor laws cover everything that Unions did in the past. If people want to join a Union, where they are told when they can work, where they can work, what they can or cannot do, and must not work at the demand of the Union officials, then have at it. I just feel that people can do more for themselves without hiding behind a Union.

 

No, it's not extortion, its called incompetence. Why would the company agree to language in the labor contract that would pay people for an 8 hour day when they are only needed for 4 hours?? Whoever negotiated your contract and agreed with the terms shouldn't be working for your company. I hope you realize that management can be incompetent as well as some of the workers they hire.

It's a cost of doing business; if that is objectionable then you shouldn't be doing business in that state or change the laws but either way you end up paying through taxes.

Unfortunately for today's workers, the laws do not cover everything; while on paper they may look good to some people; once they try to seek remedy under the so-called labor friendly laws, they realize that it can be an uphill battle (sometimes at their own expense which many cannot afford), that could take years to resolve, if at all. Though collective bargaining the worker can achieve better terms and conditions in the workplace and the benefits of job security after giving the company the best years of their working lives. Many anti-unionists fail to realize there is a human element involved.

That being said, you certainly have a right to accept or reject unions and people should respect your viewpoint whether they agree or not.

 

I don't much care about where Biden spent his Thanksgiving, and unless you bought an organic free-range turkey that died naturally during tantric sex, a bird wasn't that much more expensive. They are loss-leader items anyway. If you wanted to stand in line at any of the local pawnshops you could have gotten one for free. All ours give them away for some reason by the truckload.

What I did notice today during a trip to the local Lowe's hardware chain was that 1) they are cutting back their store hours instead of expanding them for the holidays and 2) other than really cheap poinsettias, they really didn't have all their usual lines of Christmas bargain products along the main corridors. I guess it is all still sitting in a ship somewhere waiting to be delivered. IDK, but it is feeling like this is not going to be a very profitable xmas for businesses.

 

Right? Good on Trump as well for throwing Epstein out of his resort and banning him for life. Trump cut all ties with that piece of crap way back in 2011 and never went to his Island.

 

Good to know...




Anyway Joe is a Good Guy, and I hope that President Biden enjoyed himself on Thanksgiving.

 

How in the world do you *know* that for certain? Unless you kept his calendar or piloted his planes or was handcuffed to him 24/7, you don't.

And, what does Clinton's painting have to do with this conversation?