BREAKING: House impeachment investigators release transcripts of first two deposition testimonies

Blind obedience &/or subservience to a supreme leader is not comforting in a democracy or a republic.

 

You said a CRIME, cite from the US Code this CRIME.

 

Wow! WTF are you talking about?

 

He asked for assistance in the investigation of Russian influence into the election, the "favor". And also corruption in the Ukraine with our taxpayer dollars with the most glaring case Hunter Biden. Why do you seem to assert that was out of bounds simply because his father is running for President?

And Ukriane's who may have participated and Russians in Ukraine, let's find out the whole story.

There was no bribe and no extortion, that was Biden who engage in what appears to be a quid pro quo.

He had an obligation to bring any charges to the House just as did Ken Starr with Clinton. Then once removed from office, if removed from office present the indictment. He could have brought any and all charges of criminal acts to the Congress. It is the presenting of the indictment and prosecution that must be delayed.

None there.

 

I'm not an attorney, & I'm not familiar with the U.S. Code. But I do believe bribery &/or extortion are both crimes, & what Trump was doing with the President of Ukraine constituted bribery or extortion. That makes what he did a crime.

 

I'm referring to the blind, thoughtless, obedience & subservience today's Republicans are paying Trump, in their relentless drive to keep him free of any responsibility for the impacts his Presidential decisions have on us & the world around us.

 

Well if you are going to declare it was a crime you should what law says it is a crime.

Here you go https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text

There was no bribery, no extortion in the phone call. And the fact is foreign affairs and our dealings with other countries routinely include quid pro quos and other deals such as "we will send you farm aid if you allow us to establish a consular or allow us fly over privileges or even investigate something. We have a cooperation treaty with Ukraine for just such investigations. And as Kent testified last week the State Department was and had been for years worried about corruption in Ukraine. And BIDEN was the person Obama put in as the front man to investigate and insure it wasn't going on. Yet we see the obvious corruption that was involved with his son. YES that needed to be looked at as with other corruption and assurances made corruption would be looked into before we send any more money there.

 

Blind, thoughtless, obedience and subservience to today's Democrats trying to overturn and election and remove a duly elected President without cause even after the several attempts have already failed.

 

Couldnt agree more .

 

1. No. That's the new White House version, but Trump wanted to throw the blame from Putin's Russians to the Ukrainians. Ukraine did do an investigation on possible corruption by the company that hired Hunter Biden, & found nothing serious enough to file charges for. Is there some reason that investigation should be doubted? I have never said on this forum that Hunter Biden or his dad should be out of bounds for investigation. But I have seen no evidence presented as a foundation upon which to base an investigation. Do you know of any?
2. Again, we've had three in depth investigations by the CIA, the State Dept, & the U.S. military. All three came to the same conclusion--that the Russians under Putin were responsible for all the computer hacking & foreign interference in our 2016 election. Why do you think those three agencies failed to find any Ukraine connection? Perhaps it was because there wasn't one?
3. Exactly HOW do you feel Biden engaged in a quid pro quo? You're confusing me.
4. Ken Starr had a far wider range of authority with his investigation than Mueller did. Mueller was far more constrained by the DOJ & his mission from the outset, & there were things he was told from the beginning he couldn't do, & that included filing charges against the sitting President for ANYTHING.

 

I agree with most of your post. However, the normal quid pro quos are exchanges between nations that benefit both in some way. Trump was withholding military aid until Ukraine did something back for him personally--NOT something for the U.S. That's what stinks.

I am a Democrat, & like Biden as a person, though he's not my first choice as a candidate. But as an American, I agree that Hunter's job in Ukraine looks bad, whether it actually is or not. I have also stated repeatedly on this forum, that I have no personal objections to having an investigation into Hunter's role in Ukraine, & whether it somehow connected with the dad. I am concerned with the hypocrisy of Republicans who hound Joe & Hunter Biden as if they were doing wrong, yet never mention the special business openings that were created for Ivanka in China after Trump was elected.

 

But there was no quid pro quo here and he was right to delay sending the money until he could talk to the new President who ran on an anitcorruption platform and assure us that the money would not be used corruptly and corruption would be addressed even this possible one that had come to everyone's attentions back in March.

Ivanka did nothing out of the ordinary as anyone, including her with her bossiness, applying for copyrights for their products they will be selling in another country. People in China wanting to do business here do the same thing so someone here can't just make copies and sell them. She got no direct money or benefit.

 

I disagree. First, no one is trying to overthrow an election. Republican candidates won the Presidency & Vice Presidency. Even if Trump gets impeached & removed, the Republicans would still control the White House, so nothing gets overthrown except one inept, incompetent, President. And, since the whistle-blower a month ago, ample evidence has surfaced for impeachment & removal of Trump.

 

No that is what is in the transcript and what we have known, the hacking appeared to have gone through Ukraine or some Ukrainians may have been involved. And I don't trust any investigation in which Ukraine was involved especially after an apparent extortion by Biden.

And this

"Donald Trump wasn’t the only presidential candidate whose campaign was boosted by officials of a former Soviet bloc country.

Ukrainian government officials tried to help Hillary Clinton and undermine Trump by publicly questioning his fitness for office. They also disseminated documents implicating a top Trump aide in corruption and suggested they were investigating the matter, only to back away after the election. And they helped Clinton’s allies research damaging information on Trump and his advisers, a Politico investigation found."
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/ukraine-sabotage-trump-backfire-233446

He threatened to withhold loan guaranties unless they did what he was demanding and gave them six hours to make up their minds. That something involved an investigation into a company on which his son sat as a member of the board. He should never have been involved is such as it was a blatant conflict of interest.

Not really an no more authority to charge a sitting President than Mueller, he still had to follow DOJ guide lines the main difference was Starr issued his report directly to the House while Mueller through the AG. Starr had 8 felony charges which he presented to the Congress, Mueller would have presented his to the AG who then if he agreed would have presented them to the Congress. In Clinton's case he was impeached, and remains impeached, but the Democrats said perjury, subornation of perjury and obstruction of justice did not warrant removal from office. The charges were held, Starr's office kept open and the day Clinton was leaving office then SP Robert Ray presented him with indictments he was prepared to file and Clinton plea bargained with him. The same could have happened with Mueller through the AG it didn't and Mueller shut down his office as there are no further proceedings.

 

Whether she got money or not, it looks just as bad for Ivanka to get special treatment as for Hunter. Right? Also, the company Hunter worked for was investigated by Ukraine & found to be OK corruption wise. The only reason clearly visible for yet another investigation, is because Joe Biden is potentially Trump's 2020 political opponent, & Trump wants to dirty Joe in any way possible beforehand. Personally, I feel uncomfortable with Biden & Trump, for allowing their children special privileges due to their positions. Both lend credit to the Democratic argument that everything in America is controlled by the wealthy & powerful elite.

 

No it's apples and unicorns. She had an established international business and sells products around the world and has to, like any other business, apply for copyrights which are routinely given to businesses.

I don't care what the formal Ukraine investigations discovered before, when supposedly all these countries were demanding the prosecutor be fired, or after Biden demanded his quid pro quo. I don't care if Biden is potentially Trump's opponent anymore than Democrats cared Trump was Hillary's while the Obama administration began a counter-intelligence investigation against him and his campaign without ANY evidence. His son receiving MILLIONS from corrupt Ukriane oligarchs while Biden is interfering in the investigation is a HUGE RED FLAG. Biden has no immunity from investigation simply because he is running for office and certainly neither does his son. Why was he hired and what did he do to earn the money?

 

I've not heard this. What I heard was that VP Biden helped get rid of a corrupt individual AG in Ukraine, & the investigation involving the company where Hunter worked was completed BEFORE VP Biden got involved.

 

Of course they are they are trying overthrow Trump's election and have been trying since day one this is just a continuance since the others failed and as soon as this one does they will come up with another one. And the left has already talked about impeaching Pence as soon as the get done with Trump and putting Pelosi in the White House. And NO evidence worthy of impeach has surfaced. You may disagree with his policies but that is not an impeachable offense. You may not want to investigate corruption which he does but that is not an impeachable offense.

 

Here he is admitting he did it. Oh wait......that's Biden. So you would be in favor of Biden dropping out of the race and being prosecuted then.

 

While as a Democrat, the idea of impeaching & removing Trump, then replacing Pence with Pelosi may have its appeal, I know that's not the goal of Democrats across the nation or in Congress. You might hear an isolated individual here or there mention such a thing, but they are loners, & don't speak for the vast majority. Also, by the time Trump is sent back to his tower in disgrace, it's a short time before the election, & over 20 Democrats have dedicated a large slab of their lives to pursuing the nomination. Pelosi as President would totally disrupt that whole field, & I seriously doubt she would want to do that. No, I think Pence is safe until the 2020 election. But then. . .who knows?

 

The thing you're missing in your post (& its video), is that Viktor Shokin was supposed to be in charge of the investigation against the Ukraine company Burisma, but was so corrupt himself, that he was being criticized for NOT doing a thorough investigation. Obama sent VP Biden to Ukraine to help get Shokin fired & replaced by someone who would be less corrupt & more willing to do the investigation. VP Biden was working against Shokin, who was SUPPORTING Burisma, where Hunter Biden was employed. How do you find fault with Joe Biden on this?

 

It most certainly is their goal, they couldn't win at the ballot box so they are trying their political coups. They will first deny confirming his choice for VP then begin impeach proceedings. Don't sell the Democrats too short I've seen them engaged is some of the most outrageous acts one could imagine including starting day one with Trump. And they would run her for President.

 

And Shokin says he was moving forward on the investigation and Biden should have recused himself from the geto and Hunter got paid huge sums of money by Ukraine oligarchs, not to mention the Chinese, to gain access to key people in the American government.

 

As with many points often made by Trump & his supporters, those points have little to no basis in reality. I'm a Democrat & I've heard exactly zero other Democrats around me, or on TV, or on the radio, or seen on the Internet, ever mention impeaching Pence & moving Pelosi into the Oval Office. I know Trump & his supporters like to make up pretend realities, announce them with the public, then act like they were not only real, but true. In all my years in America, I've never seen such behaviors from so many people. Clearly neither Trump or his supporters hold dear the same human values I do. It's a difficult truth to accept & make peace with.

 

You seem to have a tendency to believe those who have a record of lying. I try to be a bit more careful.