Can we have a civil, thoughtful discussion on this?

I love how fake libertarians aren't even aware of classical economics.

 

Yeah, isn't that funny????? I love that too.

 

Yep, imagine that you pretend to go back to liberal economics and are clueless over the labour theory of value. Wouldn't that be a joke?

 

The labor theory of value is a crock.

 

So you're stating classical economics is all wrong? God bless you, aren't you a thinking type!

 

I'm stating that the labor theory of value is a crock of ****.

 

And classical economics built from the labour theory of value. You're attacking the likes of Smith and Ricardo, believing that you're only blubbering about Marx. Quite amusing. Sad too though

 

Yeah, I am. Your labor theory of value is a crock of shyte. You can't defend it.

 

My labour theory of value? Chortle, chortle! Its the basis of classical economics. If you want to reject Smith and Ricardo, be my guest. I'll snigger on the sidelines.

 

It's wrong. Sorry.

 

Ooo, what a strong argument. So we have the likes of Ricardo on one side and we have a fake libertarian on the other. Hmm, you forgot detail. Ricardo managed it!

 

Yes, I see that you offer no support for you position. I accept your surrender.

 

I had hope you'd actually offer content. So far you've said 'I reject the labour theory of value, but I don't know why'. That's pish poor. Let's see if I can provoke you to actually offer comment. Why don't you crtique the empirical analysis into LVT? Here's one chosen randomly: http://reality.gn.apc.org/econ/DZ_article1.pdf

My optimism wanes...

 

You can't prove the labor theory of value.

 

Critique the paper. At least try! Your lack of content is a chore.

 

How utterly irrational!

You really go out of your way to try and apply capitalism as a causation.
Capitalism - an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.
Personal debt is very much 'a' component affecting the economy, but it is the sum total of all debts, individual, business, and most especially government (Federal, State, and local) that compounds the problem by our government using inflationary measures to make the problem appear more palatable.

Did I say "only" capitalism?

Living within your means is gambling?

Absolutely. Investing in something which will not, or can not, be put to use in a way which will benefit you is a loss.

Not special, simply rational. Keep your cookie, my daughter makes great cookies.

In the end, it would appear that you and others who think along the same lines are the causation of problems affecting our economy, and unless we put an end to that line of thinking we can be certain of continued inflation, debts, and higher cost of living to continue.

 

What have I told you multiple times?

 

Yes, Ricardo and Marx was wrong. When the Subjectivist Theory resolved the issues of LTV the likes of Menger and Jevons showed how inaccurate and outdated the theories based upon LTV by Ricardo and Marx were.

 

Not at all. It's the idea that living beyond our means is a cause rather than a symptom and an effect that is irrational.

I give facts and evidence. I'm sure you don't like that.

You said "...investing a portion of our income in ways that grows our wealth at a rate greater than the inflation rate."
I cannot fathom why you would miss this obvious connection to my statement and instead revert back to "living within your means" which certainly cannot be considered gambling.

So, you had said "Some may benefit from increased education while others, even if it were provided at no cost, may not." To which I


Not special, simply rational. Keep your cookie, my daughter makes great cookies.

In the end, it would appear that you and others who think along the same lines are the causation of problems affecting our economy, and unless we put an end to that line of thinking we can be certain of continued inflation, debts, and higher cost of living to continue.[/QUOTE]

 

Not at all. It's the idea that living beyond our means is a cause rather than a symptom and an effect that is irrational.

I give facts and evidence. I'm sure you don't like that.

You said "...investing a portion of our income in ways that grows our wealth at a rate greater than the inflation rate."
I cannot fathom why you would miss this obvious connection to my statement about gambling, and instead revert back to "living within your means" which certainly cannot be considered gambling.

So, you had said "Some may benefit from increased education while others, even if it were provided at no cost, may not." To which I replied "Yet you want to claim that wise and profitable investing is more often beneficial??" And now you say "Absolutely. Investing in something which will not, or can not, be put to use in a way which will benefit you is a loss." Which means that you believe education "will not, or can not, be put to use in a way which will benefit you" while "wise and profitable investing" ... "grows our wealth at a rate greater than the inflation rate", which is probably a reference to the stock market, i.e. "a gamble".

Let me say that again: You value investment in the stock market more than you value and education, and you think it is more reliable in its benefit than an education is!! EGAD!!

LOL!!! TYPICAL!!! Capitalist defenders of propaganda and the system blame the people for the problems the system is creating!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No wonder more and more people are abandoning the BS and looking for alternatives to capitalism! We all see right through you.

 

Investing in the stock market was part of my education.

Sounds to me as though your education is still incomplete.

Food first, books second.
Because the other way round = starve to death while reading.

 

Capitalism in the US is firmly up your you-know-what due to rampant Income Disparity amongst classes.

Enjoy! Here's hoping you have a very large and profitable stock portfolio.

Because if you don't, you're effed-royally* ...

PS: There is one and only one real economic advantage of the US over the EU. It is the fact that we Yanks have a common language and thus the ability for peoples to shift both geographical location and even jobs. Which one cannot do with the same effectiveness as the US. That's all.

*Look-up and learn the meaning of the Gini Coefficient.

 

Not when you look at the whole picture, beginning with our fiat currency which has perpetually diminished in value since its creation in the early 20th century. Our GOVERNMENT depends on growing GDP and a devaluing dollar in order to sustain a perpetually growing debt as a result of IT living beyond its means, which in turn promotes many individuals to follow suit.

On the contrary, I would love to see some facts and evidence.

I'm not a proponent of gambling.

Except for the fact that you are making claims based on things I did not say.
There are good investments and bad investments. A good investment is one which returns more than what was originally invested, taking into account inflation. A bad investment is one which returns less that its cost. If the cost of school is greater than the additional income it allows one to receive, then it was of little benefit.

Learn the system and put it to proper use in ways that benefit you.

That would be the people who are major contributors to the problems you try to blame on capitalism. Freedom does not mean sit on your bum and wait for a government agency to provide your needs and wants. That would be more appropriately descriptive of persons who are suicidal and/or have a death wish.

 

On the contrary, I would love to see some facts and evidence.



I'm not a proponent of gambling.



Except for the fact that you are making claims based on things I did not say.
There are good investments and bad investments. A good investment is one which returns more than what was originally invested, taking into account inflation. A bad investment is one which returns less that its cost. If the cost of school is greater than the additional income it allows one to receive, then it was of little benefit.



Learn the system and put it to proper use in ways that benefit you.


That would be the people who are major contributors to the problems you try to blame on capitalism. Freedom does not mean sit on your bum and wait for a government agency to provide your needs and wants. That would be more appropriately descriptive of persons who are suicidal and/or have a death wish.[/QUOTE]

 

FULL DISCLOSURE: I have never lived beyond my means. My wife and I have always worked, and we decided to live on one income and save the other. So we chose the smaller one to live on, and it was only about 5% smaller. We worked on paying off our mortgage and did it in 21 years from inception, and never took out another mortgage. Out current home is worth about $660,000. We have a credit card and we pay it off every month. We have one loan today and it is a "zero-interest" loan on a car. So I am not arguing for myself or defending a lifestyle of living beyond my means.

The people had no role in creating a fiat currency. That was done by government against the popular will when the gold standard was ended. It was done most likely so that it could be diminished in value because that is beneficial to Big Business and government. Capitalism requires growth, hence a growing GDP.... -again, not caused by the people. Inflation is created by fiscal policy as is proved by the bogus CPI numbers, all fudged in their favor and contrary to the interests of the people. BANKS create debt because debt is money to the banks. It goes on their books as an asset to loan against to generate additional interest income for them. All this shows the people are not in control and not causing "all of our problems". And personal agreement with, and/or approval of, features of the economy does not rise to the level of cause.

You end with "which in turn promotes many individuals to follow suit." Which means little other than that some may judge debt to be ok since it is such a major part of successful business and government activity. That doesn't make those people "the cause of our problems"!

You have so far failed miserably in your attempt to prove your point.

I gave some in the previous posts and I just gave more here, above.

But you don't seem to recognize the gambling character of stock market investing.

Then you should reword my inaccurate comments to eliminate the inaccuracies so that I don't make that mistake again, whatever it was.

It is absurd to claim that investing in the stock market is a better choice than getting a college education, which seems to be what you are saying.

But you just finished discrediting education!! And if a person's psychology and tolerance for risk normally found in the stock market, you haven't provided for them. You have so far taken the ridiculous position of asserting a "one-size-fits-all" approach and indicated blame for anyone who doesn't measure up. IOW, you are doing the normal right wing thing of blaming the people for what the government and its capitalist policies are doing to them.

There you go again.

And now you want to blame our problems on a tiny percentage of the population? LOL!!! If the economic system you love can't accommodate the underprivileged, the handicapped, and the psychologically damaged 4% who will always be with us, then it's time you re-thought your choice of economic systems! And in the same way, if the economic system you love causes an increase in that 4% to 30% or 40%, then it's REALLY time to rethink your choice of system!!!