Can you condemn Mohammad Ali for his racist views?

I was talking 'bout Ali, if you want to talk about Jesus that's a whole 'nother thing. I don't expect people that grew up in flawed times to have opinions that align perfectly with my own. Maybe, in 10000 years, I will be viewed as something as repugnant as a racist for something seen as completely benign now. Times change.

 

Ali was moral for that yes, but he was immoral for his blatant hatred of other races - which is what racism is, hatred. He was a hater. Took after his prophet.

 

Um....because this isn't about the prophet of Islam, this is about being mad at Ali for having views in response to the era he lived in, especially since he appeared to be somewhat less racist once he left the NOI.

And for the record I'm not saying he was 100% right, only that he was a product of his time and society.

 

Ali was not a hateful man not did he have blatant hatred for other races as you claim.

 

Yes, Ali AND JESUS failed to move beyond their times as they didn't understand right from wrong - being racist like Ali was, or accepting slavery and killing of gays like Jesus was, were of course example of simply not understanding right from wrong. People hold Ali up to almost god-like status, not quite like Jesus, but still very very high.

 

Not only did he have an ego bigger than even Trump (Ali had perhaps the biggest ego of all time), but in this video he mocks non-hijab-wearing women, and he hates the atheist interviewer once hear learn the interviewer is an atheist - even threatening him with violence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGGyNm_z8Os

In this video he is a blatant racist. Margot, just because he is real real good at beating people up doesn't mean he gets a moral pass on supremacism/racism, as he's a role model to untold millions of people! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji3KVWbiLlY

Obviously my Modern Secular Humanist belief system cares about equality more than your religious-based belief system does, but it's never too late to improve your belief system.

Have a great week.

 

I think you can be a role model and a racist if the racism exists in history- Pick any founding father, or really any US historic figure and you'll likely find a racist. We should condemn that aspect of their character, sure, but the whole person is silly and out of touch with reality. You should definitely call it out, but that doesn't have to be the end of their role as a role model, just something one would seek to improve on while emulating that role model.

Now if, say (insert modern role-model) said some racist things today, we could (and should!) condemn him on that alone- he lives now and is a modern figure and role model. If they want back into our collective good graces, they can show that while in life and maybe they'll make it.

 

And hypocritical progressives who detest "racism" but give any non-white racist a pass on it

 

You are in no position to condemn anyone...... Spreading hatred and divisiveness doesn't make you a better man.

 

Typing 5 little words would have been shorter, and more helpful in the battle against supremacism: "I condemn prophet Mohammad's supremacism."
Instead we get endless number of posts from you trying your darnedest to defend the supremacists. Deep down you seem like a supremacist, unless you can condemn supremacists, by name. It's like "I'm against supremacism, but no I won't condemn Hitler, nope, nope."

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Never said I had a penis, and the hatred and divisiveness falls on the shoulder of the racist Ali and his role-model prophet.

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You are the one who constantly defends the prophet of Islam, even when I bring up that he had innocent people, just critics(!), KILLED, you STILL defend him no matter what. YOU are the one defending hatred and divisiveness, I am the one who is about equality and fairness and love. Tough love, but love nonetheless.

 

You can't condemn Ali's racism, even though I'm sure you don't consider yourself a racist. But if you can't condemn racist people when asked, and you actually go out of your way to defend them, you are arguably a part of the problem. Join us Modern Secular Humanists in having the moral courage to love people enough to condemn those who are racists/supremacists like Ali and the prophet of Islam.

 

That pretty much describes about 80% of the posters on this thread!

"That was a racist statement (!), and I....wait....oh....sorry, uh, I forgot that he's non-white, so never mind, nothing to see here, let's move along."

 

And what exactly would I have to be supremacist about? Moreover, what post on this whole forum that I made would indicate I'm a fan of supremacism?

 

So can we both agree that if I can show you specific hateful and divisive passages in the Islamic texts that you'll condemn the prophet for those particular passages? If you're intellectually consistent you'll answer "yes", I argue. What say you?

 

I've not seen that here, though yes, in the 2 sentence snippets remembering him in the days after his death people do seem to gloss over the flaws, that's something that happens when someone dies.

I guess the lesson here is that right and wrong aren't and never were things that are immobile or rigid, they are relative things, and that when you look up to someone you have to see the flaws as well as the perfections. The best you can do to measure a historic figure is to look at their world and how well they meet the morality of the times and keep that in mind as you contrast them with your own morality.

 

You've spent post after post deflecting Ali's racism. The proper response would be something like "yes, I condemn his racism, to be sure, AND he was an incredible showman/entertainer, AND was one of the best boxers of all time."
But you, on the other hand, seem like Germans who can't quite bring themselves to condemn Hitler, even though they don't support the Holocaust and are good, decent people.

This reminds me of the threads I've seen where people DEFEND GOD'S GENOCIDES in the Bible (the "flood", etc.) On this forum people defend slavery, they defend racism, they even defend genocide. Clearly the work of Modern Secular Humanism, to raise the moral level of the world, is far far from over.

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Do you know how many people were NOT racists during Ali's lifetime! Come on, stop giving him a pass for not knowing right from wrong.

Mohammad Ali: racist with a wicked right hook.

 

Anyways, the point is why did the media promote a Black racist of Muhammad Ali over an Italian non-racist Rocky Marciano who also had a lot of talent?

I suppose just because Muhammad Ali is Black, it means he's to be promoted, no matter how racist he can be.

Liberal logic in a nutshell.

 

Post #62 should've spelled out my answer more than clearly and my reasoning for it.

 

The video, as well as this post seem to ignore the idea of context and the differences in the times in which these statements were made.

The video contrasts what happened to Muhammad Ali and Hulk Hogan when they each made racist statements. First, Ali was young during the segments showing his racism. This was a time when he was involved with Malcolm X and the civil rights movement. There's no mention of Ali making such statements when he's an old man, which should be taken into consideration as people and their beliefs aren't static. Given the climate, sure Ali got away with making racist statements. Second, what happened with Hulk Hogan was during a period of time that is much different than that of the 1960s. Of course the backlash was different when these statements were made decades apart. Making the video flawed in that, it was based blatantly around confirmation bias.

Can we condemn the Ali of the 1960s knowing the context surrounding those statements? Sure. Was he wrong? Sure. Should we condemn the more recent Ali based on his beliefs in his 20s? No. A lot can happen in 50years.

 

Because he was the greatest, and he proved it many times.

It's pretty much in the same way everyone promotes Tom Brady despite being a whiner and shifty, but not other quarterbacks of equal caliber.

 

Watch the full 1971 interview Ali had with Parkinson and see if you still believe Ali is a racist.

People must remember too that he was providing a voice to the downtrodden, and when one does that, they sure as hell can't be polite about it.

Btw, the 'racist' smear campaign against Ali seems cruel and desperate. If one thought Ali was racist, they probably conveniently forgot alllllll about the American environment he grew up in.

 

Muhammad Ali admitted that Rocky Marciano may have won.

Many heavyweight White boxers have never got the publicity, or respect they've deserved be it Rocky Marciano, Vitali Klitschko, Wladimir Klitschko, Andrew Golota, or Tyson Fury.

Seems there's more than a bit of an anti-White biased floating around in the media.

 

Well since he didn't die a racist...

/thread, right?

 

Nah, I don't condemn Ali for his racist views. I'd probably condemn him if I didn't have some sort of understanding of those views. On the other hand, being a white guy myself, I do not understand the KKK's views and they should be much easier to understand.

 

Did Ali even fight Marciano in real life? Because I'm reading a lot about a simulated fight, and how Ali thought Rocky was closer to him than most other white people.