Children will win the fight for same sex marriage and adoption by gays!

rahl · Jun 8, 2015

dixon76710 said: ↑

Its not bigotry AND the UN declaration of Human rights is consistent with my views that marriage and the Human right to it is exclusively between "men and women".
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Which doesn't limit marriage to opposite sex couples.

Oops

rahl · Jun 8, 2015

Trinnity said: ↑

In the fullness of time, we'll regret this. Children are not better off being raised in a gay lifestyle.

Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay ‘Marriage’ in Federal Court

(CNSNews.com) – Four adult children of same-sex parents have submitted amicus curiae briefs in the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals asking that it oppose the legalization of same-sex “marriage."

In her brief, Dawn Stefanowicz described her experience living in a same-sex household. “I wasn’t surrounded by average heterosexual couples,” she says in her court brief. “Dad’s partners slept and ate in our home, and they took me along to meeting places in the LGBT communities. I was exposed to overt sexual activities like sodomy, nudity, pornography, group sex, sadomasochism and the ilk. There was no guarantee that any of my Dad’s partners would be around for long, and yet I often had to obey them,” she said. “My rights and innocence were violated. As children, we are not allowed to express our disagreement, pain and confusion,” Stefanowicz explained. “Most adult children from gay households do not feel safe or free to publicly express their stories and life-long challenges; they fear losing professional licenses, not obtaining employment in their chosen field, being cut off from some family members or losing whatever relationship they have with their gay parent(s). Some gay parents have threatened to leave no inheritance, if the children don’t accept their parent’s partner du jour.”

“I grew up with a parent and her partner in an atmosphere in which gay ideology was used as a tool of repression, retribution and abuse,” B.N. Klein wrote of her experience with a lesbian mother. “I have seen that children in gay households often become props to be publicly displayed to prove that gay families are just like heterosexual ones.” Klein said she was taught that “some Jews and most Christians were stupid and hated gays and were violent,” and that homosexuals were “much more creative and artistic” because they were not repressed and were naturally more ‘feeling.’ At the same time I was given the message that if I did not agree (which I did not), I was stupid and damned to a life of punishing hostility from my mother and her partner,” she recounts. “They did this with the encouragement of all their gay friends in the community and they were like a cheering squad. I was only allowed out of my room to go to school. This could go on for weeks. I was supposed to hate everyone based on what they thought of my mother and her partner,” said Klein. “People’s accomplishments did not matter, their personal struggles did not matter, and their own histories were of no consequence. The only thing that mattered was what they thought of gays.”
(more at link)

How Does Gay 'Marriage' Hurt Us? Here's How

Christians are often asked by gay activists why they oppose same-sex “marriage.” “How does our marriage hurt you?” they ask. Well, I can think of one significant way it will hurt us: It will destroy religious freedom and free speech rights.

The handwriting is on the wall in Canada, which legalized same-sex “marriage” in 2005, in effect completely changing its true meaning. Since then, as Michael Coren notes in National Review Online, “there have been between 200 and 300 proceedings … against critics and opponents of same-sex marriage.” Of course he means legal proceedings.

For instance, in Saskatchewan, a homosexual man called a state marriage commissioner, wanting to “marry” his partner. The commissioner, an evangelical Christian, declined to conduct the ceremony for religious reasons. He simply referred the man to another commissioner. But that was not enough for the gay couple. Even though they got their ceremony, they wanted to punish the Christian who had declined to conduct it. The case ended up in the courts. And the result? Those with religious objections to conducting such ceremonies now face the loss of their jobs.
(more at link)

Children shouldn't be the guinea pigs of this social experiment. It's cruel.
Click to expand...

Hmmmm...........

Most research studies show that children with two moms or two dads fare just as well as children with heterosexual parents. In fact, one comprehensive study of children raised by lesbian mothers or gay fathers concluded that children raised by same-sex parents did not differ from other children in terms of emotional functioning, sexual orientation, stigmatization, gender role behavior, behavioral adjustment, gender identity, learning and grade point averages. Where research differences have been found, they have sometimes favored same-sex parents.
Click to expand...

http://www.aamft.org/imis15/aamft/Content/Consumer_Updates/Same-sex_Parents_and_Their_Children.aspx

Oops

Flintc · Jun 8, 2015

Trinnity said: ↑

Christians are often asked by gay activists why they oppose same-sex marriage. How does our marriage hurt you? they ask. Well, I can think of one significant way it will hurt us: It will destroy religious freedom and free speech rights.
Click to expand...

Someday, right? But clearly even where it is legal and practiced, nothing has been destroyed or even inconvenienced, except for a few newsworthy intolerant bigots who use their bibles as an excuse to discriminate.

For instance, in Saskatchewan, a homosexual man called a state marriage commissioner
Click to expand...

Oops, NOT a private citizen. Even in Canada, no religious people are obliged to perform any marriage. But a representative of the State MUST represent the State. This is the law.

wanting to marry his partner. The commissioner, an evangelical Christian
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Sorry, but when you work for the state, you set your religious convictions aside during working hours and you obey the damn law!

d to conduct the ceremony for religious reasons. He simply referred the man to another commissioner.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but all State commissioners must obey the law.

t was not enough for the gay couple. Even though they got their ceremony, they wanted to punish the Christian
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No, they wanted an employee of the state to obey the laws of the state. Even in Canada, religion doesn't give state officials the right to refuse to follow the law.

he declined to conduct it. The case ended up in the courts. And the result? Those with religious objections to conducting such ceremonies now face the loss of their jobs.
Click to expand...

No, those employees of the STATE who refuse to follow the laws of the STATE face the loss of their jobs. Regardless of the reason they refused.

What is there about religion that causes people to completely ignore all context and start ranting about Christians? Can these people really not see past the tip of their Jesus?

dixon76710 · Jun 9, 2015

rahl said: ↑

Which doesn't limit marriage to opposite sex couples.
Oops
Click to expand...

It limits the human right of marriage to opposite sex couples.

ProgressivePatriot · Jun 9, 2015

dixon76710 said: ↑

Its not bigotry AND the UN declaration of Human rights is consistent with my views that marriage and the Human right to it is exclusively between "men and women".
Click to expand...

You can't seem to get it through your head that when you quote someone, you are not supposed to edit what is being said. Doing so alters the meaning.

This is what I posted:

PS> I will concede this regarding European Commission . You finally found something factual that is consistent with your anti gay bigotry. Congratulations.! Go ahead and gloat. That is the difference between me and you. When I'm faced with information that I don't like, I admit it. I do not try to twist the meaning, deny reality, or lie about it.

HOWEVER, the European Commission has nothing to do with the UN and it damned sure has nothing to do with the law in this country. It's June Dixon. Be prepared to take up arms. Remember the Alamo!
Click to expand...

dixon76710 · Jun 9, 2015

ProgressivePatriot said: ↑

You can't seem to get it through your head that when you quote someone, you are not supposed to edit what is being said. Doing so alters the meaning.

This is what I posted:
Click to expand...

We all no what you posted. Did you have a point? String together a few words and make it, if you can

rahl · Jun 9, 2015

dixon76710 said: ↑

It limits the human right of marriage to opposite sex couples.
Click to expand...

Does no such thing. If it did it would have said so.

ProgressivePatriot · Jun 9, 2015

Trinnity said: ↑

In the fullness of time, we'll regret this. Children are not better off being raised in a gay lifestyle.

Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay ‘Marriage’ in Federal Court

(CNSNews.com) – Four adult children of same-sex parents have submitted amicus curiae briefs in the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals asking that it oppose the legalization of same-sex “marriage."

In her brief, Dawn Stefanowicz described her experience living in a same-sex household. “I wasn’t surrounded by average heterosexual couples,” she says in her court brief. “Dad’s partners slept and ate in our home, and they took me along to meeting places in the LGBT communities. I was exposed to overt sexual activities like sodomy, nudity, pornography, group sex, sadomasochism and the ilk. There was no guarantee that any of my Dad’s partners would be around for long, and yet I often had to obey them,” she said. “My rights and innocence were violated. As children, we are not allowed to express our disagreement, pain and confusion,” Stefanowicz explained. “Most adult children from gay households do not feel safe or free to publicly express their stories and life-long challenges; they fear losing professional licenses, not obtaining employment in their chosen field, being cut off from some family members or losing whatever relationship they have with their gay parent(s). Some gay parents have threatened to leave no inheritance, if the children don’t accept their parent’s partner du jour.”

“I grew up with a parent and her partner in an atmosphere in which gay ideology was used as a tool of repression, retribution and abuse,” B.N. Klein wrote of her experience with a lesbian mother. “I have seen that children in gay households often become props to be publicly displayed to prove that gay families are just like heterosexual ones.” Klein said she was taught that “some Jews and most Christians were stupid and hated gays and were violent,” and that homosexuals were “much more creative and artistic” because they were not repressed and were naturally more ‘feeling.’ At the same time I was given the message that if I did not agree (which I did not), I was stupid and damned to a life of punishing hostility from my mother and her partner,” she recounts. “They did this with the encouragement of all their gay friends in the community and they were like a cheering squad. I was only allowed out of my room to go to school. This could go on for weeks. I was supposed to hate everyone based on what they thought of my mother and her partner,” said Klein. “People’s accomplishments did not matter, their personal struggles did not matter, and their own histories were of no consequence. The only thing that mattered was what they thought of gays.”
(more at link)
Click to expand...

In the “fullness of time”?? Seriously? OK, So what do we have here? A story from the Catholic News service about a few obviously troubled people who are alleging a pattern of sexual and emotional abuse at the hands of gay and lesbian parents.

First of all, No one ever said that gay and lesbian are never poor parents or even responsible for abuse. (*)(*)(*)(*) happens. Anecdotal, isolated accounts of this sort prove nothing. But as a former child protective services investigator, I can tell you that there are hundreds of stories of children being mistreated at the hands of straight parents for every one involving gay parents.

In addition, this account only appears in one other place, https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/q...n-of-gay-parents-testify-against-same-sex-mar

Which is another source of anti-gay propaganda. And allow me to remind you that the 5th circuit has yet to rule on this matter, and that there \are other amicus briefs which have been submitted, which you failed to mention: http://www.freedomtomarry.org/resources/entry/amici-briefs-to-the-5th-circuit-in-deleon-v.-perry

Meanwhile, here are some real life stories of the people involved in the 5th circuit cases:

At the same time in New Orleans, a three-judge panel of the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals is hearing cases from three states – Texas, Louisiana, and Mississippi. The Louisiana case is unique in that it is the first to come to a federal appeals court where same-sex couples seeking marriage recognition and the right to marry lost their case in the lower court, says longtime court observer Kathleen Perrin, executive director of Equality Case Files, who is attending the hearing on behalf of Frontiers. Arguing the Mississippi case is super-star Robbie Kaplan, who successfully argued Edie Windsor‘s DOMA case at the Supreme Court. Neel Lane is arguing for the Texas plaintiffs.

UPDATE (12:48pm): The 5th Circuit has posted the audio recordings of the oral arguments in each case: here’s the link for the audio in the Louisiana case; the Texas case; and the Mississippi case.

“Every day I see the love, strength, courage of LGBTQ Southerners,” said Jasmine Beach-Ferrara (pictured above) of the Campaign for Southern Equality, a plaintiff with two same-sex couples in the Mississippi case, at an emotional news conference in downtown New Orleans Thursday night hosted by Freedom to Marry, Lambda Legal and the Forum for Equality Louisiana. https://www.frontiersmedia.com/fron...circuit-hearing-scotus-decides-take-case-not/
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In addition, tens of thousands of children are in the care of gay and lesbian people. When it comes to same sex marriage, the quality of that parenting is not even the right question to be asking, unless you are willing to advocate the removal of those children from their care and prohibit their acquiring more. Prohibiting marriage in itself is not going to change the fact that gay people have children and will only serve to place those children at a legal and economic disadvantage. The whole premise of this post is nonsense.

There were an estimated 300,000 to 500,000 gay and lesbian biological parents in 1976. In 1990, an estimated 6 to 14 million children have gay or lesbian parents.

Latest statistics from the U.S. Census 2000, the National Survey of Family Growth (2002), and the Adoption and Foster Care Analysis and Reporting System (2004) include:
• An estimated two million LGLB people are interested in adopting.
• An estimated 65,500 adopted children are living with a lesbian or gay parent.
• More than 16,000 adopted children are living with lesbian and gay parents in California, the highest number among the states.
• Gay and lesbian parents are raising four percent of all adopted children in the United States.
• Adopted children with same-sex parents are younger and more likely to be foreign born.
http://adoption.about.com/od/gaylesbian/f/gayparents.htm
Click to expand...

In addition, adoption is legal is 49 states. Generally, acceptance of gay and lesbian adoption has been way out in front of same sex marriage. In some states, it has been occurring for decades.

Given these numbers, please answer the following questions:

1. If children who are in the care of gay people are at risk of abuse or having developmental/ adjustment issues why have the states been allowing this for so long?
2. If mistreatment of children by gays was prevalent, why are we not hearing horror stories and seeing headlines about this on a regular basis ?
3. Why have we not been seeing large numbers of adults who had been children of gays coming forward to speak out against gay parenting?
Claims that gay parenting is harmful to children are bogus and stupid.

And then there is this:

In a project launched last month, a team I direct at Columbia Law School has collected on one website the abstracts of all peer-reviewed studies that have addressed this question since 1980 so that anyone can examine the research directly, and not rely on talking heads or potential groupthink. Even when we might not agree with a study’s conclusions—with how a researcher interpreted the data—we still included it if it went through peer review and was relevant to the topic at hand. Peer review, of course, isn’t perfect, but it’s one of the best ways the world has to ensure that research conclusions are at least the product of good-faith efforts to get at the truth.

The Columbia project is the largest collection of peer-reviewed scholarship on gay parenting to date. What does it show? We found 71 studies concluding that kids with gay parents fare no worse than others and only four concluding that they had problems. But those four studies all suffered from the same gross limitation: The children with gay parents were lumped in with children of family breakup, a cohort known to face higher risks linked to the trauma of family dissolution.

The studies, while not perfect do give us a very good idea on the conclusions and that is that gay homes are not better nor worse.

Here is a link to all the studies

http://whatweknow.law.columbia.edu/...eing-of-children-with-gay-or-lesbian-parents/
Click to expand...

Also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_parenting
Click to expand...

posting this sort of crap and using children as pawns in your failed and pathetic attempt to stave off marriage equality is shameful! You're right! Children shouldn't be the guinea pigs

How Does Gay 'Marriage' Hurt Us? Here's How

Christians are often asked by gay activists why they oppose same-sex “marriage.” “How does our marriage hurt you?” they ask. Well, I can think of one significant way it will hurt us: It will destroy religious freedom and free speech rights.

The handwriting is on the wall in Canada, which legalized same-sex “marriage” in 2005, in effect completely changing its true meaning. Since then, as Michael Coren notes in National Review Online, “there have been between 200 and 300 proceedings … against critics and opponents of same-sex marriage.” Of course he means legal proceedings.

For instance, in Saskatchewan, a homosexual man called a state marriage commissioner, wanting to “marry” his partner. The commissioner, an evangelical Christian, declined to conduct the ceremony for religious reasons. He simply referred the man to another commissioner. But that was not enough for the gay couple. Even though they got their ceremony, they wanted to punish the Christian who had declined to conduct it. The case ended up in the courts. And the result? Those with religious objections to conducting such ceremonies now face the loss of their jobs.
(more at link)

Children shouldn't be the guinea pigs of this social experiment. It's cruel.
Click to expand...

Just more crap from the same biased source. What the hell is a state marriage commissioner? We don’t have them here. Whatever might be going on in Canada has nothing to do with us. To imply that it does is just ridiculous and intellectually dishonest

dixon76710 · Jun 9, 2015

rahl said: ↑

Does no such thing. If it did it would have said so.
Click to expand...

Words have meanings. "Men AND women" as opposed to men OR women. Men and women, becoming husbands and wives. Fathers and mothers to their children. The "natural and fundamental group unit of society".

rahl · Jun 9, 2015

dixon76710 said: ↑

Words have meanings. "Men AND women" as opposed to men OR women.
Click to expand...

Yes men and women. Meaning adult humans. No limitation of any kind to opposite sex couples. Sorry.

Men and women, becoming husbands and wives. Fathers and mothers to their children. The "natural and fundamental group unit of society".
Click to expand...

procreation isn't relevant.

ProgressivePatriot · Jun 9, 2015

rahl said: ↑

Yes men and women. Meaning adult humans. No limitation of any kind to opposite sex couples. Sorry.

procreation isn't relevant.
Click to expand...

Interesting how he insists on ignoring the much more recent and relevant UN Human Rights Council Vote that I posted to him just yesterday

UN Human Rights Council Votes to Support LGBT Rights http://www.dallasvoice.com/breaking-human-rights-council-votes-support-lgbt-rights-10180486.html
The United Nations Human Rights Council has approved a resolution condemning discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity, a boost to supporting LGBT rights around the world.

The International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission praised the vote, calling it an important step forward toward progress for equality and human rights for LGBT individuals.

“The Human Rights Council has taken a fundamental step forward by reaffirming one of the United Nations’ key principles — that everyone is equal in dignity and rights,” said Jessica Stern, executive director of IGLHRC. “This resolution puts the UN on a trajectory to address the discrimination and violence LGBT persons suffer daily across the world.”

The resolution — led by Brazil, Chile, Colombia, and Uruguay — asks the UN Office of the High Commissioner of Human Rights to gather and publish information on how best to overcome discrimination and violence.

The resolution passed by 21 votes in favor, including the United States, 16 against, and 7 abstentions.
Click to expand...

dixon76710 · Jun 9, 2015

rahl said: ↑

Yes men and women. Meaning adult humans. No limitation of any kind to opposite sex couples. Sorry.

procreation isn't relevant.
Click to expand...

the "natural and fundamental group unit of society" consists of mothers and fathers providing and caring for their children together in the home, because of the requirements of procreation. Two gay guys with an adopted orphan is a recent fad and certainly not a natural or fundamental unit of society. And marriage limited to "Men and women" is precisely what we are debating here.

ProgressivePatriot · Jun 9, 2015

dixon76710 said: ↑

the "natural and fundamental group unit of society" consists of mothers and fathers providing and caring for their children together in the home, because of the requirements of procreation. Two gay guys with an adopted orphan is a recent fad and certainly not a natural or fundamental unit of society. And marriage limited to "Men and women" is precisely what we are debating here.
Click to expand...

A debate that you and the states have lost badly. How come your not posting your favorite passages from Skinner v Oklahoma, and Zablocki v. Redhail. today. Oh, right! I exposed the fallacy of using those case in relation to marriage yesterday and you had nothing further.

dixon76710 · Jun 9, 2015

ProgressivePatriot said: ↑

Interesting how he insists on ignoring the much more recent and relevant UN Human Rights Council Vote that I posted to him just yesterday
Click to expand...

Ive addressed it repeatedly. Marriage limited to husbands and wives is not "discrimination" against "LGBT"ers. And if they had ANY intent to change marriage laws, they would have spoke of it. ESPECIALLY with an article of the UN Declaration of Human Rights on the subject.

Arxael · Jun 9, 2015

dixon76710 said: ↑

Words have meanings. "Men AND women" as opposed to men OR women. Men and women, becoming husbands and wives. Fathers and mothers to their children. The "natural and fundamental group unit of society".
Click to expand...

None of that prohibits SSM. Nice try on words, boy are you going to be disappointed at the end of June when SSM is legalized. Are you going to be leaving the country after that?

dixon76710 · Jun 9, 2015

ProgressivePatriot said: ↑

A debate that you and the states have lost badly.
Click to expand...

That is from the UN declaration of Human Rights and I and the states havent been involved in any debate on the matter. Silly

rahl · Jun 9, 2015

dixon76710 said: ↑

the "natural and fundamental group unit of society" consists of mothers and fathers providing and caring for their children together in the home, because of the requirements of procreation.
Click to expand...

Procreation is irrelevant. The ability isn't required for marriage.

Two gay guys with an adopted orphan is a recent fad and certainly not a natural or fundamental unit of society. And marriage limited to "Men and women" is precisely what we are debating here.
Click to expand...

Limited to men and women refers to adult humans. Not opposite sex couples only. Which is why it doesn't say opposite sex marriage.

dixon76710 · Jun 9, 2015

ProgressivePatriot said: ↑

A debate that you and the states have lost badly. How come your not posting your favorite passages from Skinner v Oklahoma, and Zablocki v. Redhail. today. Oh, right! I exposed the fallacy of using those case in relation to marriage yesterday and you had nothing further.
Click to expand...

You knocked down the strawman that "procreation is essential to, or an inextricable part of marriage". What did you want me to add?

dixon76710 · Jun 9, 2015

Arxael said: ↑

None of that prohibits SSM. Nice try on words,.......
Click to expand...

No one claimed it did. Another strawman mightily slayed by the mighty slayer of strawmen. You da man!!!!........you can let it go now.

dixon76710 · Jun 9, 2015

rahl said: ↑

Procreation is irrelevant.
Click to expand...

Dont be silly. OF COURSE procreation is why the nuclear family consist of a father and mother with their children.

rahl said: ↑

The ability isn't required for marriage.
Click to expand...

No one claimed it was. And we are speaking of the "natural and fundamental group unit of society"

Arxael · Jun 9, 2015

dixon76710 said: ↑

No one claimed it did. Another strawman mightily slayed by the mighty slayer of strawmen. You da man!!!!........you can let it go now.
Click to expand...

Then why keep bringing it up? No wonder your side lost, you keep bringing up irrelevant topics. Enjoy SSM being legal, YOU deserve it. lol

rahl · Jun 9, 2015

dixon76710 said: ↑

Dont be silly. OF COURSE procreation is why the nuclear family consist of a father and mother with their children.
Click to expand...

Irrelevant.

None claimed it was. And we are speaking of the "natural and fundamental group unit of society"
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Without a requirement, it's moronic to bring it up and point out same sex couples can't marry because they can't procreate. It's incorrect, because procreation is irrelevant.

- - - Updated - - -

dixon76710 said: ↑

No one claimed it did. Another strawman mightily slayed by the mighty slayer of strawmen. You da man!!!!........you can let it go now.
Click to expand...

You really need to learn what a strawman is. Because you keep misusing it.

Trinnity · Jun 9, 2015

rahl said: ↑

Oops
Click to expand...

"most studies show" means nothing. It's just too vague.

Trinnity · Jun 9, 2015

Flintc said: ↑

Someday, right? But clearly even where it is legal and practiced, nothing has been destroyed or even inconvenienced, except for a few newsworthy intolerant bigots who use their bibles as an excuse to discriminate.
Click to expand...

Excuses to justify perversion as normal don't impress me at all. Your blatant attack on normalcy and people of faith is noted. And dismissed as ..... hate speech.

Trinnity · Jun 9, 2015

ProgressivePatriot said: ↑

In the fullness of time?? Seriously? OK, So what do we have here?
Click to expand...

Troll someone else, you bore me. Expecting me to justify my stance is ridiculous. Your view touts the hardline commie gay mafia agenda. It's a perverse lifestyle and not healthy for kids. That's just logical. Wait and see....Rosie's kids will be hollering abuse in a few years.

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