Corbyn is Being Destroyed, Like Blowing Up a Bridge to Stop an Advancing Army <<MOD WARNNG>>

alexa · Sep 2, 2018

Here are a few articles from Jewish Voice for Labour.

Benjamin Netanyahu Is Fine With Anti-Semites — as Long as They Support Israel’s Occupation

Now here of course Jewish voice for Labour is talking about antisemitism as being hatred of Jews and the usual memes that that entails, much more present in the far right and White Supremacists - though they frequently like Israel. This of course is what antisemitism is, not criticism of Israel.

JVL Introduction

The Guardian’s moral compass on racism is illustrated on page 1 and 2 of its print edition on 31st August, which gives equal space to two stories:

* One: the appalling news that at least three members of the Windrush generation wrongly deported to the Caribbean had died before officials were able to help them return to the UK.
* Two: the news that a Labour MP, an open admirer of Enoch Powell, and anti-abortionist, who used his vote recently against Labour, to help avert a parliamentary crisis for the Tories, and faces deselection by his own party, has stepped down. Why? The Guardian explains: “Field Resigns Labour whip over antisemitism crisis”!

Here is Owen Jones’s excellent response in the very same newspaper. But the damage is already done in the agenda setting of the Guardian’s news reporting.
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Come in Frank Field! Your time is up

See Rhetoric British Jews have no problem with Owen.

This one written by a Jew who is the son of a Zionist, a Zionist himself for many years and a member of the Labour Party all of his life except the New Labour years.

............................................
........................................
The charge that the Labour Party and specifically Jeremy Corbyn are soft on anti-Semitism is outrageous. It is the latest and most bizarre of a series of monstrous smears by the right-wing establishment. If we were to believe them, then Corbyn is somehow simultaneously a pacifist, a terrorist, a Stalinist and a Czech spy. Now this lifelong campaigner against racism is branded an anti-Semite too. One wonders when he has the time to tend his allotment.

I wouldn’t blame the Israeli diplomatic service for promoting such accusations; it is their job to use every means at their disposal to avoid the election of a British government sympathetic to the Palestinian cause. In this case the smear campaign has been taken up by the British establishment, and unfortunately endorsed by that wing of the Parliamentary Labour Party opposed to Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership, because of the failure of its earlier palpable slanders.

This campaign is even dirtier than the “Zinioviev letter” faked by MI5 to damage Labour in the general election of 1923, or than Churchill’s lie in 1945 that if Labour won the election, it would establish a Gestapo police state. It is of course the Tory party that is riddled with racism. It was a Tory government which introduced the 1905 Aliens Act that blocked Jewish emigration from the East European pogroms, and it was a Tory MP who founded the Right Club in the 1930s to “expose the activities of organised Jewry”. British immigration policy throughout the Nazi period was designed to keep out at least ten times as many Jews as it allowed in. During that period, it was the Daily Express which carried the infamous headline “JEWS DECLARE WAR ON GERMANY” and the Daily Mail which screamed “HURRAH FOR THE BLACKSHIRTS!”. Churchill personally made repeated racist comments against Jews.
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Only three years ago, it was the Mail which made a thinly veiled anti-Semitic attack on Ed Miliband’s father, while the Sun published an unflattering picture of Ed Miliband eating a bacon sandwich – another anti-Semitic jibe.

No party has done more to resist all forms of racism than Labour. It is significant that no other parties have come under any similar pressure to adopt any such charter as the IHRA document.

I believe that the IHRA definition of anti-Semitism is deeply flawed. It is clearly designed to protect the Israeli state from legitimate criticism. It is also inconsistent. For instance, it argues that it’s anti-Semitic to “deny the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a state of Israel is a racist endeavour”. In that case, how then can it also be anti-Semitic to “accuse Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel than to the interests of their own nations”? Either Israel is a homeland for Jews worldwide, in which case it has a right to expect their loyalty, or Jews have an obligation to give prior loyalty to the country in which they live. The IHRA apparently wants it both ways.
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https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/blog/a-submission-to-the-labour-partys-nec-others-to-follow/

Reiver · Sep 2, 2018

Mac-7 said: ↑

If I were a palestanian who knew history I would give up the idea of pushing Israel into the sea and make peace with the Jews

But the arabs never learn
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You didn't respond to the point. Let's try again. Do you support the illegal settlements and don't you care about the human rights abuses?

Baff · Sep 2, 2018

Montegriffo said: ↑

That would be the Republicans then since the majority of the population of Ulster want to stay in the Union.
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Correct.

Mac-7 · Sep 2, 2018

Reiver said: ↑

You didn't respond to the point. Let's try again. Do you support the illegal settlements and don't you care about the human rights abuses?
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I’m not on the ground to judge for myself what is going on with the settlements

But my default position is that I support the State of Israel

So yes I support the settlements at this time

Reiver · Sep 2, 2018

Mac-7 said: ↑

I’m not on the ground to judge for myself what is going on with the settlements

But my default position is that I support the State of Israel

So yes I support the settlements at this time
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Then you demand continued violence and you demonstrate no value for life. Did you also support Apartheid Africa?

alexa · Sep 2, 2018

Here are some more interesting articles on the difference between criticism of Israel and antisemitism

Unprecedented initiative by over 30 Jewish groups worldwide opposes equating antisemitism with criticism of Israel

Jewish groups issue joint statement against misleading definition of antisemitism used to stifle criticism of Israel and undermine free speech

Coalition of 36 groups from 15 countries defends right to criticise and boycott Israel

IHRA definition undermines both Palestinian struggle for freedom, justice and equality and global struggle against antisemitism

New York, London, Berlin, Tel Aviv (July 17, 201 – From South Africa to Sweden, New Zealand to Germany to Brazil, for the first time ever over thirty Jewish organisations across the globe have come together in a statement opposing attempts to use a distorted definition of antisemitism to stifle criticism of Israel. The statement, spearheaded by the US-based Jewish Voice for Peace and supported by six UK Jewish groups, condemns a growing trend of legislative campaigns to target organisations that support Palestinian rights, especially the nonviolent Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement.

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https://freespeechonisrael.org.uk/globaljewishstatement/

Liberty is Britians leading Human Rights Charity

Media Notice from Free Speech on Israel

Liberty Warns against IHRA Definition of Antisemitism

Resolution passed by civil liberties body says government-adopted definition risks undermining the fight against antisemitism

Liberty reiterates abhorrence of antisemitism as “repellent undercurrent which persists across the social and political spectrum.”

Definition conflating antisemitism with criticism of Israel is “threat to freedom of expression.”

Public bodies urged not to adopt IHRA definition.

The Annual General Meeting of Liberty, Britain’s leading organisation concerned with civil liberties and human rights, has warned public bodies not to adopt a government-backed definition of antisemitism because it brings confusion to the fight against anti-Jewish prejudice as well as constituting a threat to freedom of expression.
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https://freespeechonisrael.org.uk/libertyihra/

How can this attempt to stop free political thought and speech be any part of a Democracy. It is more what we should expect from a totalitarian state.

This is by Richard Silverstein

How the IHRA's anti-Semitism definition is a threat to British democracy

The IHRA definition is yet another tool in the arsenal of Israel’s far-right government and the UK Israel lobby to destroy any possibility of developing an independent approach to Israel-Palestine

…....

The rise of Jeremy Corbyn
In the 15 years since the IHRA protocol was drafted, its authors have broadened their ambitions. They've seen it adopted by several European Union countries as their national arbiter to define anti-Semitic acts. But over the past year, it has gone far beyond its original confines to be used to sabotage the political career of a national political leader.

Despite the fact that Britain has experienced anti-Semitism for centuries (Jews were expelled not once, but twice from the British Isles), and such hate has generally originated in the ruling classes, the UK Israel lobby, with the covert assistance of the Israeli government, has targeted the nation's Labour Party as a major malefactor.

The reasons are clear: the Tories have embraced Israel with a vengeance. They are more Catholic than the Pope when it comes to supporting it. There is no Israeli act that can trouble the conscience of the Tories.

The Labour Party, however, is troublesome. It has often seen itself as a bastion of anti-colonialism and anti-war sentiment. Its voters and many of its leaders strongly opposed militarism and supported the cause of human rights and self-determination of oppressed peoples like the Palestinians.

That does not mean that Labour is anti-Israel. In fact, one can argue that it has been as pro-Israel as the Conservatives. But the rise of Jeremy Corbyn has offered a different sort of Labour leader: one who embraces the historic grassroots and hearkens back to the working-class origins of the party.

Corbyn has often been compared to that American upstart populist, Bernie Sanders. While the comparison isn’t always apt, it is in this regard: both are willing to question conventional wisdom and old consensus around issues like Israel-Palestine. As such, they are dangerous both to Israel and its Diaspora lobby.

So, the lobby's strategists determined to do all in their power to sabotage Corbyn and persuade the British people that he is a dangerous, anti-Semitic ideologue.

That’s why we hear the cascade of lurid charges that Corbyn consorted with Hamas activists , laid wreaths on the graves of Palestinians terrorists, and insulted British Zionists by supposedly claiming they didn’t understand British customs and norms. It's why we hear story after story in the media bemoaning the purported hate spewed against Jews within the party: Jewish MPs are revolting; they’re going to form a new party; British Jews fear for their lives and plan on emigrating to Israel for their own safety, etc.

A toxic mix
Into this toxic mix, the lobby introduces the IHRA definition and pressures the Labour Party to adopt it wholesale. Any attempt to modify it is an attempt to mollify the anti-Semites in the party. The strategy appears to be to use all these attacks as an encircling device that will eventually squeeze Corbyn and his supporters like a vice until they have no further room to wriggle free.

At that point, the hope seems to be that Corbyn will be so discredited that the rank and file will finally revolt and return to the comfort of the Blairites, who will resume control of the party and return to full-throated, unconditional support of Israel.

Thus, the IHRA definition is yet another tool in the arsenal of Israel’s far-right government and the UK Israel lobby to destroy any possibility of developing an independent government approach to Israel-Palestine. It also becomes yet another method of projecting the power of these entities into the domestic politics of Great Britain.
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https://www.middleeasteye.net/colum...otages-legitimate-criticism-israel-1657596820

Here is another one by Silverstein

The Israel Lobby, Jeremy Corbyn, and the Abuses of Antisemitism

Plenty more here

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/links-to-articles-of-interest-not-on-this-site/

Mac-7 · Sep 2, 2018

Reiver said: ↑

Then you demand continued violence and you demonstrate no value for life. Did you also support Apartheid Africa?
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I agree one is connected to the other

Smart arabs would end the violence and make peace with the Israeli’s

Reiver · Sep 2, 2018

Mac-7 said: ↑

I agree one is connected to the other

Smart arabs would end the violence and make peace with the Israeli’s
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I asked you a question. Did you also support Apartheid Africa?

Mac-7 · Sep 2, 2018

Reiver said: ↑

I asked you a question. Did you also support Apartheid Africa?
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I suppose you mean South Africa

No

Blacks were not being treated fairly

But several decades after the shift in power whites are not being treated fairly either

Maybe whites should have held out for a two state solution themselves

As it stands now I see no possibility of a peaceful resolution of the palestine situation

It was possible in 1948 but not anymore

alexa · Sep 2, 2018

For Topical Use Only said: ↑

Anti-Cornbynstas be like: View attachment 74818
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Just came upon your quote in this article about the intention of forcing the Palestinians to accept Israel's colonisation of all of their land Israel wants, cutting off aid being the latest weapon

US officials have not concealed the fact that they want leverage over the Palestinians to force them to submit to Donald Trump’s long-promised “deal of the century” peace plan.

But there is a deeper and darker agenda afoot than simply reviving failed negotiations or pandering to the Trump administration’s well-known antipathy towards international institutions.

Over the past 25 years, peace talks have provided cover for Israel’s incremental takeover of what was supposed to be a future Palestinian state. In the words of Palestinian lawyer Michael Tarazi, while Israel and the Palestinians were discussing how to divide the pizza, Israel ate it all.

So Mr Trump’s team has, in effect, reverse-engineered a “peace process” based on the reality on the ground that Israel has created.

If Israel won’t compromise, Mr Trump will settle the final status issues – borders, Jerusalem and the refugees – in the stronger party’s favour. The only hurdle is finding a way to bully the Palestinians into acceptance.

In an indication of how sychronised Washington and Israel’s approaches now are, Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu and the US ambassador to Israel, David Friedman, made almost identical speeches last week.

In an address to American Jewish leaders, Mr Friedman noted that a “different way of thinking” prevailed in the Middle East. “You can’t talk your way, you just have to be strong,” he said.

The next day, Mr Netanyahu reiterated that message. He tweeted: “The weak crumble, are slaughtered and are erased from history while the strong, for good or for ill, survive.”

That sounded uncomfortably like a prescription for the Palestinians’ future.

Israel has already carved out its borders through the ethnic cleansing campaigns of 1948 and 1967. Since then, it has mobilised the settlers and its military to take over almost all of the remnants of historic Palestine. A few slivers of territory in the West Bank and the tiny coastal ghetto of Gaza are all that is left for the Palestinians.

A nod from the White House and Israel will formalise this arrangement by gradually annexing the West Bank.

As far as Jerusalem is concerned, Mr Trump recognised it as Israel’s capital by moving the US embassy there in May. Now, even if it can be born, a Palestinian state will lack a meaningful capital and a viable economy.

The final loose end are the refugees.

Some time ago, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas surrendered their right – sanctioned in international law – to return to their former lands in what is now Israel.

Instead, the question was whether Israel would allow the refugees encamped in Lebanon, Syria and Jordan to move to the West Bank and Gaza and become citizens of a Palestinian state.

But if Israel refuses to concede a Palestinian state, even that minimal ambition is doomed.

Israel and the US have an alternative solution. They prefer to dismantle UNRWA and disappear the Palestinians in the swelling tide of refugees spawned by recent western interventions in Iraq, Syria, Libya and Aghanistan. On Sunday Mr Netanyahu welcomed what he called a US move to "abolish the refugee institution, to take the funds and really help rehabilitate the refugees".

Then, Palestinian refugees would fall under the responsibility of the UNHCR, the UN’s umbrella refugee agency – or better still, their host countries.

In a leaked email reported by Foreign Policy magazine this month, Jared Kushner, Mr Trump’s son-in-law and adviser, wrote that it was time to “disrupt UNRWA”. He added that “sometimes you have to strategically risk breaking things in order to get there".

Central to that disruption is stripping millions of Palestinians of their status as refugees. The Trump administration is due to publish a report later this month, according to Israeli media, that will propose capping the Palestinian refugee population at 500,000 – a tenth of the current number.

Mr Kushner has reportedly been leaning on Jordan to revoke the status of its two million Palestinian refugees, presumably in return for US compensation.

When UNRWA’s mandate comes up for renewal in two years’ time, it seems assured Washington will block it.

If there is no UNRWA, there is no Palestinian refugee problem. And if there are no refugees, then there is no need for a right of return – and even less pressure for a Palestinian state.

Israel and the US are close to their goal: transforming a political conflict governed by international law that favours the Palestinians into an economic problem overseen by an array of donors that favours Israel.
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https://www.thenational.ae/opinion/...-us-administration-cut-unrwa-funding-1.765998

Reiver · Sep 2, 2018

Mac-7 said: ↑

I suppose you mean South Africa

No
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So you don't just have a blind eye to Israel's human rights abuses. You also have an eye for hypocrisy.

Baff · Sep 2, 2018

Anti zionism vs anti semitism perhaps.

For Topical Use Only · Sep 2, 2018

alexa said: ↑

Just came upon your quote in this article about the intention of forcing the Palestinians to accept Israel's colonisation of all of their land Israel wants, cutting off aid being the latest weapon

https://www.thenational.ae/opinion/...-us-administration-cut-unrwa-funding-1.765998
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Bibi's busy paraphrasing Adolf whilst wingeing pom zios bleat about a more or less non existent antisemitism. It's not coincidence.

alexa · Sep 2, 2018

and the UK is apparently intending on moving its Embassy to Jerusalem after Brexit according to Craig Murray

......What my source is saying is that secret contingency planning for a post Brexit move to Jerusalem is underway in the FCO. What I have been pressing the FCO for is an admission that planning is taking place. Obviously this is not something they would want to be public knowledge at present.

My source stated that the move is partly ideological, and partly to sweeten relationships with the USA in seeking a trade deal. My own observation is that the Tories probably think this would cause more trouble between Corbyn and the Parliamentary Labour Party, and that the Westminster classes are totally out of touch with real public opinion on Palestine, as they seldom meet anybody who does not share their extreme zionism.
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https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/arch...-uk-embassy-to-move-to-jerusalem-post-brexit/

Mac-7 · Sep 2, 2018

Reiver said: ↑

So you don't just have a blind eye to Israel's human rights abuses. You also have an eye for hypocrisy.
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I dont see the situations as the same

But considering what happened to whites after apartheid maybe they should have held out for a two state solution in south africa

Baff · Sep 2, 2018

In the UK we have way more Jewish diaspora than we do Palestinian.

We will side with Israel, because America, and because of our own people.

Sure loads of us have sympathies for Palestinians. But that is all they are.
Our Jews share bonds with Israel.

For the rest of us it's just something to bitch about. Doesn't affect us at all.
We affect interests in Palestine we don't actually have.
The Jews, it goes much deeper.

I have mates in the IDF. None in Hamas.
They are British, their families are British. Their communities are British.
Their concerns outweigh yours just as they outweigh mine.

The Jews here are our minority and we will support them.
It doesn't sit well. I have to tell you. But there you are. Blood is thicker than water.

Reiver · Sep 2, 2018

Mac-7 said: ↑

But considering what happened to whites after apartheid maybe they should have held out for a two state solution in south africa
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Another ridiculous statement. Had enough of the nonsense. Bye.

Mac-7 · Sep 2, 2018

Reiver said: ↑

Another ridiculous statement. Had enough of the nonsense. Bye.
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Ok

Just leave your white flag at the door for the next foreign liberal to use

Reiver · Sep 2, 2018

Nice summary of the Labour Right here...

"Many folks have noted how much the Labour right shares with their Tory counterparts. The tendency to Parliamentary cretinism and cross-party chumminess immediately come to mind. There is something else they share too: decadence. Their entire trend is zombified and dropping to bits, and yet they mindlessly carry on, uninterested or unable to grasp the character of their predicament. And nothing will change until the much-promised centrist outfit turns up and they disappear into the obscurity of the historical footnote, or party members call time on their undistinguished careers." http://averypublicsociologist.blogspot.com/2018/08/on-campaign-against-corbyn.html

The Rhetoric of Life · Sep 2, 2018

Time to unseat Momentum?
https://www.theguardian.com/news/20...emy-corbyn-problem-labour-antisemitism-crisis

I think unseating Jeremy Corbyn doesn't go far enough, the Labour Party, good honest moderates, can't function in their own party with Momentum.

Reiver · Sep 2, 2018

The likes of Progress lost Labour 5 million voters. They achieved that through arrogance and taking the Labour member and voter for granted. Momentum, in contrast, has been highly effective at increasing the vote among the young and those that left politics due to neoliberal consensus politics.

The Rhetoric of Life · Sep 2, 2018

Reiver said: ↑

The likes of Progress lost Labour 5 million voters. They achieved that through arrogance and taking the Labour member and voter for granted. Momentum, in contrast, has been highly effective at increasing the vote among the young and those that left politics due to neoliberal consensus politics.
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neo-liberal
adjective
adjective: neoliberal

1.
relating to or denoting a modified form of liberalism tending to favour free-market capitalism.

Is that a crime?
You need to get it out of your head that that's a bad thing.

The Rhetoric of Life · Sep 2, 2018

Who do you think's taking over MNC (multinational corporation) property and arresting its employees in Venezuela on trumped up charges of 'not selling to the locals' @Reiver?
It's not Captialism or Free Trade, I can tell you that much.
https://www.irishtimes.com/business...iving-smurfit-kappa-grief-for-years-1.2736477
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ftse-100-corruption-allegations-a8505741.html
****ing Xenophobic Socialists.

Why doesn't Jeremy Corbyn **** off the Venezuela or like Hitler to Argentina?

The Rhetoric of Life · Sep 2, 2018

Moral of the story Corbynistas...
NOBODY WANTS TO BE COMPARED TO VENEZUELA
So why would we want to change the UK to be like Venezuela?

Baff · Sep 2, 2018

Because in Venzuela everyone is starving.
No one is richer than you.

Women don't look at the guy next to you and think he's got wealth.

Every one is a loser in Venezuela. Not just you.
Social equality.

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