Cuba still very controversial

The embargo is stupid. The best way to erode communism and undermine the power of their leaders is by allowing the people to experience the prosperity that capitalism provides.

I would also like a cigar.

 

There is a flaw in that. The Cuban people are too wise to fall for the baloney.

 

Umm, ok. That hasn't been the experience anywhere else in the world, but ok, if you say so. Totally explains why so many of them try so hard to move here...

 

It's hard to say what exact route Cuba would take after open trade with America, but I would imagine that it would allow our corporations to buy up a significant portion of their country.

There's a lot of money to be made there.

 

And explains why millions more don't despite the deprivations caused by the siege. The baloney bit referred to your notion that they all are desperate for a system of wealth redistribution from poor to rich, as opposed to not wanting an end to the economic siege. They definetely do want the latter. I've spent months in Cuba and there is nothing better that the Cuban people would like than for the dumb American government to end its absurd blockade which is literally causing severe hardship for the vast majority of the people. But don't confuse their desire for an end to the blockade with a desire for capitalism.

 

Or it could be that their basically held hostage and brainwashed by a state run media. The embargo has been terrible on them, which is why I want it removed, the people shouldn't suffer because they have a despot in charge.

History speaks for itself, the Cuban government wants the embargo in place more than we do because they know it'd immediately undermine their regime.

 

Their brainwashing takes a different form and is less sophisticated than ours but don't be fooled into thinking that outcomes are fundamentally much different. I agree that the embargo is terrible and needs to be removed but that's not the fault of Castro but Obama.

Contrary to Western propaganda, the vast majority of Cuban's appear to be very proud of their "despot". Certainly, the Cuban's understand very well that their nationalist struggle against US imperialism was hard fought for and the vast majority don't want to see a return to the kind of gangster capitalism suffered under their former US puppet, Batista.

The people in Cuba are highly educated about their history, but I accept that there is a large minority of the younger generation who view Fidel as somewhat of an anachronism.

I'm not trying to glamorize Cuban society and people in Cuba are about as happy and sad as just about anywhere else. But what I'm not going to swallow is the anti-Cuban propaganda that eminates from the US. Many people in the US tend to conveniently forget, for example, that education and healthcare are human rights too, not just the potential freedom to be able to accumulate money.

 

That they have a thriving tourist industry and excellent healthcare, perhaps? Cuba is awfully poor because of the ridiculous sanctions America refuses to lift. What is it about this tiny Caribbean island that frightens America so much?

 

The internet has put a huge dent in the ability of any free nations government to control the flow of information. Castro nor Obama want the embargo lifted, for different reasons but both have vested interests in keeping in tack.

If you were stuck in a box and only saw one guy that told you all of your woes were because of some evil giant across the ocean, you'd sympathize with him too all the way up until the time you got out of the box and saw everything that's really going on.

Via grossly distorted text books. Don't get me wrong, the same thing happens here, however if you don't believe what's written you can investigate most issues yourself. Something that just isn't possible in Cuba

I'm not anti-Cuba at all, I don't like their leaders and think the people might choose something different if ... ya know... they were allowed to actually choose. If their government existed as a result of free, open and democratic elections, super, but that's not at all the case.

 

I agree that much work needs to be done in terms of creating a genuinelly pluralistic democracy. But the same can be said for formal Western democracies too. Yes, in Cuba there is a lack of real choice, but when one compares the differences between the aformentioned formal democracies and the situation in Cuba, objectively speaking in terms of outcome, as opposed to form, it could reasonably be argued that Cuba is more democratic than its Western counterparts. I stressed the differences between form and outcome because its significant.

Technically, the internet is available to Cuban's but its prohibitively expensive for most so, yes, that is an issue. I think you are right to say that Castro is resistant to change, Raul, less so.

Cuban's don't need to be told about their devil across the sea. Many have living memory of what Batista meant to them. And this is passed on through the generations. Believe me when I say this, the vast majority of Cuban's view Castro as a hero and a symbol of their revolution against their former US imposed dictator. A small minority take the view that he represents the idea that he is better the devil they know. Many of the younger generation are impatient for change.

 

You do so rightly especially in light of this current election between the two corporate media puppets. However I absolutely believe that I'd rather choose between the lesser of two evils every 4 years than have no choice at all. The illusion really matters to most people. Not to mention that despite the media and the American duocracy's attempts, there are candidates other than the two that are likely to win. I hold onto the hope that at some point those other options as a result of the inability to restrict the flow of information will some day destroy that duocracy.

We'll see, I hope that Raul will allow his people to have access to information, it's the core of people being able to make decisions, after all an uninformed decision is not a decision at all. As an IT guy maybe I put too much faith in it, but the truth is our leaders realize the threat it is to their ability to dictate the dialog of the public, which is why we've seen Rep. Lamar Smith introduce legislation to put a stranglehold on that (SOPA/CISPA etc).

There's two sides to every story and being able to hear both sides and arrive at the most logical conclusion is essential. This has been a fantastic conversation, I'm glad despite disagreements we might have on a whole host of issues that our ultimate goal is the same, and that's serving the interests of the people of Cuba regardless of what Washington and Havana's interests are.

 

I've always wondered this myself.

Every year the Embassies in Vientiane get together for a social event,, a black tie ball. Embassy staff, both foreign and locals attend.

A couple of years ago, the band struck up a Salsa. The American embassy staff were ordered to sit down and get off the dance floor.

 

Hmm, I wonder why...

 

I'd just like to add that foreign tourism is a double-edged sword for Cuba. When I visited, there was a dual currency in existence - the Peso and what is called the Peso Convertible which is equivalent to the Euro. The situation is reminiscent of what was happening in Eastern Europe during the late 1980s and early 1990s. The conversion rate when I was there in 2009 was 44 Cuban Pesos to one Convertible.

Cuban's are paid an average of 1,100 Pesos per month (25 Euros/Convertibles). In the tourist parts of Havana the bars and restaurants only accept Convertibles which only relatively wealthy Cubans and foreign tourists can get access to. So one can see the potential problems in terms of the lack of social cohesion.

A limited form of private enterprise is allowed in Cuba. For instance, Cuban's are allowed to rent out rooms in their apartments to foreigners. I was paying about 25-30 Convertibles/Euros a night for a room with breakfast (in other words, a months salary for the average Cuban). Anybody (including foreigners) can exchange Convertibles for Pesos in banks.

I used to keep a mixture of Convertibles and Pesos on me. Of course, for most Cuban's they only had access to Pesos and thus were not able to mix with foreiners socially in bars and restaurants.

In theory, foreigner's are able to spend Pesos on the street at food stools and at mini-markets but often the traders, knowing that one is a foreign tourist, would demand Convertibles instead of Pesos.

However in the suburbs of Havana, I frequently was able to spend Pesos in local bars and at ice cream and street food stalls. I remember paying 20 Pesos for a meal (50 cents) and 5 pesos for a beer (9 cents). The equivalent in a tourist bar would of been about 8 dollars and over a dollar respectively.

These kinds of divisions in Cuban society will only get worse as time goes on. Inequality and the emergence of a corresponding dual economy described, has resulted in a growing gap between the have's and have-nots. It's not a healthy situaton that's emerging in Cuba.