Defend the Noah's Ark narrative

KJV is the bible the LCMS used as the defacto bible for years. Of which I was a member. It was said to be the closest to the original untranslated versions.
And is the 1st English translated bible.
All others toned down the nastiness of the bible to water down for folks.

Here is the translation of the Hebrew words used in the OT.
The KJV translates Strong's H7451 in the following manner: evil (442x), wickedness (59x), wicked (25x), mischief (21x), hurt (20x), bad (13x), trouble (10x), sore (9x), affliction (6x), ill (5x), adversity (4x), ill favoured (3x), harm (3x), naught (3x), noisome (2x), grievous (2x), sad (2x), miscellaneous (34x).
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=H7451&t=KJV

Note, evil was translated the most for the word Ra

 

Slay would be the most translated word for the hebrew word.

The KJV translates Strong's H7523 in the following manner: slayer (16x), murderer (14x), kill (5x), murder (3x), slain (3x), manslayer (2x), killing (1x), slayer (with H310) (1x), slayeth (1x), death (1x).
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=H7523&t=KJV

 

Only for some christians. Of course the chosen people don't believe that. And the other religion with the same god, also doesn't believe that.

 

other bible version are copyrighted ... so of course most choose to use the un-copyrighted version

how crazy to copyright what one says is the word of a God

https://www.biblegateway.com/versions/New-Living-Translation-NLT-Bible/#copy

"Holy Bible, New Living Translation, copyright © 1996, 2004, 2015 by Tyndale House Foundation. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers, Inc., Carol Stream, Illinois 60188. All rights reserved."

 

As an atheist, copyright makes no difference to me. But there is one restored names Bible translation that has no copyright. It's called the Halleluyah Scriptures.

The KJV is still copyrighted in the UK.

 

you never know, why get a copyright if you do not plan to use it, better safe then sorry when quoting the bible

that may be true, but in the USA the KJV is public domain

https://www.biblegateway.com/versions/King-James-Version-KJV-Bible/#vinfo

 

All true. I was just giving additional information regarding copyright of the Bible.

 

Why should people believe in the ethnocentric Jewish deity Yahweh, the God of the Hebrews and the God of the armies, instead of some other deity or none at all?

 

Ask yourself. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/science...ust-planet-changed-14-000-years.html#comments

 

I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am the LORD, that doeth all these things.

You are looking at Western thinking.

There is no ancient Hebrew word for the English 'evil'.

In Western minds we think of 'god' as good and 'satan' as evil. God is good so therefore cannot create evil.

In the Eastern mind (the Hebrews were of Eastern origin) good and bad are two sides of the same thing. They balance each other with shades in between. Yin and Yang. Light and darkness are joined by what is in between. Look at the sun and you will become blind. Go onto a completely dark room and you will become blind. To see properly you have to some sun and some shade.
In the Western mind we look for the good and the bad and often ignore the in-between. The Eastern mind looks at God as the balance of all things..
Balance. You can't have good without something to compare it with - bad. Cold without heat for comparison, short without tall, near without far, etc It's all a matter of
Balance.

 

comparing vulcanism to flooding is ridiculous.

We are talking about geological time, not a few thousand years ago. Its the same reason you find sea shells at the top of mountains.

But then again, geology is not the friend of creationists nor biblical literalists.

 

We know for a fact that the sedimentary layers found all over the earth were not deposited in a single flood event. There are footprints and other artifacts between layers, the layers are not hydrologically sorted by sediment size, etc. etc. So either there was no flood or God deliberately erased all evidence of it.

 

Lots of evidence of regional floods in the area. Tigrus/Euphrates and Nile Rivers regularly flood across their alluvial plains.

Of course back in the day, the whole world was encompassed by what we term the middle east today. Naturally they'd think f any flood as a world event. They had no clue they only occupied a small piece of a much bigger place.

 

....broad is the road to destruction, and narrow the road to life.

 

um.. okay...

did it happen? Did what happen? Noah's Ark? Did Noah and his sons survive some cataclysmic flood? I think this could be an extinction epoch. But then again not because Noah had an Ark and his 3 sons and their wives and the animals. So it couldn't have been extinctive. It was a transitory between one time to the other.

A better question might be, are you sure, can you prove that all the other animals which were not allowed into the Ark was 'drowned'?

Why would God have all the innocent animals drowned for doing nothing?


Definitely not for future fossil bone studiers, right?

What sort of God would do this for future persons needing these to come to belief?

Okay.. so probably not.. Since God IS Love, probably not.

So back to your question.

How did Noah's Ark occur, if it did, and if it did, am I sure it did, leaving all the side 'notions' to be left answered at another time?

Well.. The Ark was buiilt according to The Holy Bible.. His 3 sons and their wives were on the Ark as well as animals. The Holy Bible gave the Ark's dimensions which fits into the possible room needed for all of them.. So.. the food supply must have been gathered, the water, etc..

Okay. So... the question is, 'did it happen'? And if so, what information can we get from it?

What useful information pertaining to God, The LORD and (J)esus Christ can be get from it if 'They' are about 'good' and not 'harm'?

Interesting.

Well we know that when corruption is left unchecked, it will destroy. It will end up destroying upon itself. But what of the animals? Even though the persons could have been utterly corrupt, what of the innocent animals?

How would innocent animals need to undergo such deaths? For what reason? They didn't 'die' for the sins of mankind. So why would they have needed to die? Why was only certain animals chosen? 2 of this kind, 7 of those? What distinguished them from the others within their own kinds?


Okay... so let's see. If all the humans were 'corrupted' to the point of not caring if they were going to live or die even though they were not in the 21st century with the Governments aiding to personal freedoms of choice, their attitudes could have had some impact on the animals around. What might that impact have been?

(we today can use Government as an excuse for not heeding any warnings but then there was none they could have used)

So... what could the animals have gone through by such persons? I'm not sure.. but I have ideas.


Remember that it is a fearful and frightening thing to fall into the Hands of The Living God.

Hebrews 10:31 "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."


Today, if I should get 'afraid' for some God 'thing', I could always run to the nearest money exchanging business and do some money exchanging things to get my mind off of that 'fear' that I might have had. But then they could not do any of these things.


And today, there are more than just Noah who would be able to understand that God is Great. And to be able to talk with them is something they didn't care about.


So what are the ties between Noah's Ark and Lot's escape out of Sodom? The LORD God (J)esus Christ provided for a way out for both of them.

 

'Not that there is what I would consider a "good" translation these days but, the KJV is notoriously bad.

 

I couldn't agree more. STILL... If you want to have a debate on religion with fundamentalist Baptists, you must accommodate them with their preference for the KJV. They reject other Bible translations as much as they reject the Qur'an.

 

What I do with those fools is prove that the Bible is not inerrant. See Page 7. http://www.thedivinecouncil.com/DT32BibSac.pdf

Note the differences in same verse from 3 different Bibles (LXX and 4Qdeut before common era - MT from roughly 700-900 AD).

If you do not think the meaning is almost completely lost by the time we get to the MT - have a look at a recent translation of Deut 32:43

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+32&version=NIV

So the one thing that remained in common in the MT/LXX/4QDeut - "And he will cleanse his peoples land" is changed to "and make atonement for his land" eliminating almost all meaning from this passage. No longer is it the peoples land ... It is Gods land. God is no longer "Cleansing" the land of enemies (genocide essentially) ... God is making some atonement .. what ever the fk that means.

Oh .. but sorry that was the NIV ... surely the KJV will be more accurate ?!

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+32&version=KJV

At least the word atonement is ambiguous enough that someone with forked tongue might be able to convince the brainwashed idiots that the meaning is the same.

There is no way that you can go from "He will cleanse his peoples land" in context of the passage can be translated "He will be merciful unto his land and to his people"

Abject made up gibberish. Pious fraud.


.

 

The point of the story is that even if we had a new start (destroyed by a flood), as human beings we would go back to messing up. That's what most of the Old Testament is about.

 

So there was always only 9" of rain there? How do you know that?

 

Yeah, I mean god gave the world his only son to die for our sins and we are still screwing things up. go figger.

 

Out of curiosity, I looked up the verse in the NRSV and it reads VERY differently from the NIV and KJV (with 5 footnotes):

Praise, O heavens, his people, worship him, all you gods! For he will avenge the blood of his children, and take vengeance on his adversaries; he will repay those who hate him, and cleanse the land for his people.

 

Is it just me or is that dude naaaaasty.

 

Wow .. no kidding - that is a very good translation. I will check out this Bible at once. Thanks for that.

 

It gets 32:8 right as well. Who knew ! Much appreciated