Despite Australian gun ban. Illegal market flourishes

Well, Sweden has had very strict anti-gun laws for as long as I can remember, yet the violent crimes and gun-crimes have always been very high compared to other countries in the EU. Over the last few years shoot-outs have definitely seen an increase. Especially in the cities of Malmö and Gothenburg where only this summer there were several grenade-attacks(!!!!) and shootings with heavy automatic-weapons(!!!) on the middle of the street(!!!!) Also some smaller cities have in the last few years seen an increased amount of consistent shoot-outs. In 2011 the "Council for Preventing Crime"(Brottsförebyggande Rådet/BRÅ) noted that killings with illegal weapons has increased since 1990.

As I see it, the most important thing here is to control individuals rather than to control the weapons. As Sweden does not have anything similar to the Second Amedment, controling individuals would be much easier and legally possible in Sweden. What Sweden has to do though, is to stop the influx of illegal weapons and also give doctors the right to break the "silence code" when it comes to people who are mentally unsuitable of owning a gun, so that these can be reported to the police. And of course, anyone who wishes to own a gun should be put on serious background and psychological test first.

If the ideas above are adapted I really hink gun-violence would see a major decrease.

As for other countries within EU I don't know more than what I mentioned in my previous post.

 

IDK about that, oddly enough as an American I have more gun rights in Canada then Canadians. When driving through Canada between Washington State and Alaska I can bring with me arms that are not legal for Canadians to posses.

 

Taking a quote out of context to make your point.

You are reaching korben. And for the most part my comments on gun law are meant to be universal not for the US. There is a big world out there.

- - - Updated - - -

Perhaps, or it could go the other way.

As you can see with the americans who post here, if it goes to (*)(*)(*)(*), it is hardwork convincing people to put the gun down.

 

So then Canada has a border problem? Canadians cannot buy guns in the USA and transport it back to Canada without permission and if it is an illegal firearm they cannot transport it back at all, they cannot openly purchase a firearm with out a green card and to transport it back it must be a legal weapon in Canada. So how does the open of weapons in the USA a problem for Canada? Now if you are speaking of criminal activity, well duh, let me know how to stop criminals and we'll fix the issue.

Well duh, that's already a non issue....it's the criminals not the law abiding citizens that need controlled....good luck with that, eh?

 

translation-its designed to harass and disarm good people so the clowns in office can pander to the hysterics who WANT something done in response to very rare instances of nutcases killing others in violation of laws already in place

a cowardly response to rare incidents.

- - - Updated - - -

that first sentence should be your guiding motto on all things American.

 

As such an impossibly tiny % of firearms in the US are used for violent crime, "tolerance" of widespread and common gun ownership by the law-abiding is the only rational and reasonable position to take; any position to the contrary is based purely on emotion.

Why do you have an irrational fear of law-abiding citizens with guns?

- - - Updated - - -

Mostly because there's no sound reason to do so.

 

When was the last time you changed your position on something, that involved in you feeling like you had less power, just because its the right (or sound) thing to do.

 

Sorry... didn't see your answer:
Given the impossibly tiny % of firearms in the US are used for violent crime, "tolerance" of widespread and common gun ownership by the law-abiding is the only rational and reasonable position to take; any position to the contrary is based purely on emotion.
Why do you have an irrational fear of law-abiding citizens with guns?

Translation:
You understand you have no sound argument.

 

Trumps my rights how?
No denying we have a "crime" problem. But gun control is not the answer.

 

Didn't say it did.
In fact, it illustrates the absence of real difference in effect between Aussie and US gun control.

 

I know you didn't.

 

I would think yes, but to what extent I don't know.

- - - Updated - - -

I was thinking more of gangs in Toronto.

 

On the issue of Canada. The US is to Canada and black market firearms as Mexico is to the US and drugs.

Criminal law exists to deal with criminals. In Australia we regulate lawfully owned firearms and the law is the tool for that.

 

So we both agree, in Canada, the USA, and in Australia we cannot stop criminal enterprise as the article that started this discussion pointed out. It appears aussie laws punish law abiding aussies... eh?

 

Yeah, got a lot of experience from your years living in Canada?

 

Lawfully owned firearms are not the problem, and regulating law abiding people is not the solution. You are failing to improve your society, violent crime went up over 40% when the AUS gun ban went into effect. I believe it was just in 2013 that the AUS armed robbery crime rate dropped to below the pre-ban rate (1995 rate).

 

No, by definition someone who is law-abiding isn't punished.

- - - Updated - - -

Not years, unfortunately, only months.

- - - Updated - - -

Lawfully owned firearms aren't a problem because we have good regulation of them and their owners.

 

That is an extremely revealing statement. It means that you believe all gun owners are potential criminals unless held in check by government oversight. It means you believe humanity cannot be trusted, individuals are not to be trusted to run their own lives, and only due to an activist and interfering government is a civil society possible.

It also shows that you do not discriminate between criminals and gun owners, you treat them all as undesirable populations even though criminals mean to do you harm and lawful honest people who also happen to own a firearm do not mean you any harm. In other words, you hate gun owners for the simple reason hat they own a gun.

Explains a lot about modern Australia and its loss of freedom.

 

My experience of the USA when I have visited has been overwhelmingly positive, however, from the posts on here by people who require guns to protect themselves and their family within certain parts of the USA from seattle to texas, confirms that at least most australians are free to work, live and enjoy life in public without being that afraid by their fellow man that they felt the need at some point in their lives to arm themselves.

This notion you have that americans are free in an absolute sense whereas modern australia is some sort of neo marxist state is passed consiparcy theory into insanity.

 

You might notice that while I've posted in this thread I haven't railed against Australian policy that is none my business. Need to speak up here though and defend myself(assuming Seattle refers to me) and my country.

While I do have more to fear then the average Australian and I'll get to that in a second. I carry mostly for other reasons, first being habit and due diligence. For myself and many others it's habit, in the morning I get dressed, grab my keys, gun, wallet, extra mag, cell phone, knife, and go. I see no real difference in anything in that list. Second is a form or protest, it's an important right, a right that I feel must be protected, a right that I feel is a responsibility to practice. Many disagree with me on this but to me the right implies a responsibility, a responsibility to my countrymen to exercise it and if needed put it to use to protect my community.

Back to having more to fear, Jackster put it well......

 

Most Americans do not carry or own a firearm out of fear or distrust of their fellow man, just the opposite. A person who believes in the right to bear arms must trust his fellow man and must assume each individual is capable of living their life properly and civilly. If a person does not trust his fellow Citizens, then obviously it would be foolish to want to arm those untrustworthy masses - distrust of people is the gun banner attitude.

And you can be absolutely certain that many people in Australia want their guns back, and many wish they could be armed to protect themselves. Australia has far more violent crime than the USA.

 

Rather than assume why not ask?

I don't believe potential firearms owners are criminals. I owned firearms and I wasn't and am not a crook.

The view of firearms in Australia is that they are potentially hazardous unless used properly and safely and are maintained in good order. To overcome the hazards of firearms use owners must undergo some basic safety training. Their character is also checked. As is their mental health. Depending on the type of firearms involved the reason for wishing to acquire a firearm can also be examined.

As far as freedom goes, it depends on your definition of freedom. Don't seek to impose your definition of freedom on me or my country and we will get along just fine

 

Your earlier statement spoke for itself. As does this one I am responding to - it reeks of distrust of gun owners. You want gun owners to undergo mental health checks, safety training, be of acceptable character (what is that criteria exactly?), and you want to approve their reason for wanting a firearm (and what is that exactly?). In AUS, do you have to go through all of that to get a drivers license? Far more are killed by cars, vehicles are a far greater threat to public safety than firearms, yet you are consumed with distrust of gun owners.

Why all the effort against lawful gun owners? Criminals are the problem, and criminals will not follow your procedures.

 

Really.
How many accidental gun-related deaths in Australia?