Determinism and Free Will at the Quantum Level

Discussion in 'Science' started by ryobi, Jan 10, 2020.

  1. Quasar44

    Quasar44 Banned

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  2. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    Dimensions are physical rules of the universe. If you go high up in physics and quantum mechanics, then you will see there are several theories, like string theory, where there are 10 or upwards of that physical dimensions.
     
  3. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    There is no known relationship between uncertainty in physics, and free will in humans. It has been speculated and it is something many have wondered about, but we don't know if free will exists or not.
     
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  4. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    They aren't talking about space-time dimensions. These are a matter of definition and mathematical.
     
  5. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    You have provided nothing to support your alleged conclusion. And they aren't really 11-dimensional structures in the sense that you are thinking. They are mathematical dimensions.
     
  6. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    Perhaps I used the wrong word. Instead of Quantum, it's multiversal. You know. The idea that our universe is one of many infinite universes.

    Some posts I've made about it in the past:
    Off the Chart Universal and Multiversal Models.
    Brain Architecture: Scientists Discover 11 Dimensional Structures ...

    So, anyway, even if everything in this one universe is set in place from beginning to end and is calculatable and predictable, if possible, the multiverse trumps that because our brains think above it all.

    :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2020
  7. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I think free will has to do with the degree to which we are all just meat automata.

    We certainly can gin up some complex solutions to problems we find, but I'm not sure how that addresses the question of free will.
     
  8. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    We have free will because we can make a choice.
     
  9. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Well, I think the classic version of the question involves how free we realy are in making the choices we make.

    A computer program can make choices, too. We wouldn't suggest a computer has free will.

    Clearly a human makes use of a far greater range of input - experience, training, etc. But, if that is the only difference, one might argue that we're just more complex meat automata.

    I'd like to know more about the philosophical arguments on this topic.
     
  10. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    Here is the distinction in a nutshell. We think we can make a random choice. Computers cannot make random choices.

    Can we really make a random choice? Does that lie in the realm of uncertainty as from Heisenberg, or can the biochemistry in our brain at least in principle be modeled, such that the choice made was predetermined by physical influences and not a decision.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2020
  11. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    How do you know your thoughts aren't being controlled by an evil genius, who is just making you think the external world and your free will, exist. How can you prove that you're not just a brain in a jar connected to a virtual world, like the Matrix?
     
  12. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well, actually, I do think we are in a simulated universe. But, even a brain in a jar can think, assuming it's alive.
     
  13. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    How do you know your thoughts are your own and not put there?

    Many super-geniuses have claimed that they didn't create their work, it just came to them... for example.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2020
  14. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    For example...
     
  15. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well, our brains could be transceivers, but it could also be the case that our minds are working on a problem as we sleep.

    I must admit that we wouldn't know if our brains are being fed information.

    But, I'm under the impression that the brain creates physical structures to store our memory. I think the structures are called microtubules.
     
  16. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    Therefore there are physical structures where memories can in principle be manipulated.

    Before he died, an old friend of mine from physics came to believe our brains are essentially transceivers; I think because of the way some knowledge seems to just come to people. And it isn't limited to math.

    I recall that Descartes claimed to prove logically that his thoughts are his own. But I don't recall how he arrives at that conclusion. I was going to review later but his meditations are linked.
    https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/descartes/1639/meditations.htm

    [Haha, marxist,org? They just happened to be the first link I saw with the entire text. This has nothing to do with Marxism. He was a 17th century philosopher.]
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2020
  17. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Anti Quantumist here.

    Gimmie That Ole Time Newtonian Physics
    Feet, Gallons, Pounds and Fahrenheit too


    Deus vult.
     
  18. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    foilhat.jpg
    Get Yours Today!
    Don't become indoctrinated because you don't have protection.

     
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  19. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    Yet we can't and have found through quantum mechanics that all things are not what we seem to think they may be..
     
  20. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    Very funny Moi.

    And I love the weird.
     
  21. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Chaos rules...
     

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