Did anybody change their mind today?

If trump had stood up to putin, or stood up for our country, I would still be on the floor in spasms of shock, and I would have had to reevaluate my entire opinion of him. Obviously that didn't happen, but a lot of people seem shocked that he didn't.

My question is, did this cause anyone to reevaluate their opinion of trump?

EDIT: If you changed to approve of him now, I would really really like an explanation.

I should also point out that this is after the helsinki meeting with putin. In case this lasts long enough.

 

I guess mine changed... .for the worse. Even though we knew before that he was in Putin's pocket, at least he did it with a bit of "shame". Now he just outright came out of the closet.

Good thread. Is it possible that any real American would keep supporting Trump after this? Those who make a living off of him, certainly will: Hannity, Giulliani, Nunes, Huckabee-Sanders... But is it possible there is anybody else?

 

My impression is that support for him comes form a place of emotion. I believe studies show that when a belief is emotionally held, evidence to the contrary entrenches their belief. Fox is already giving them excuses, and avenues of escape.

 

We're not the only country with 'fake news'. Reports from around the world seems to indicate they feel trump rolled over for Putin. One more thing Mueller can ad to his investigation is treason.

 

The question you have to ask, is where is the innocent until PROVEN guilty?

With Hillary Clinton, we gave her ample time to be proven to be innocent? Once evidence was out that she did break the law, and that she allowed Russia to hack the election through her email server, the conservatives attacked her. Not before.

Where is this same treatment from the left?

 

So, this post seems logically sound to you? You don't really know where your thinking is off on this?

 

Anybody who says they now approve of him. I would very very very much like an explanation. I suspect those are dishonest votes.

 

We will never get the option to prove them guilty because Putin will never approve the extradition of the individuals named in the indictment.

 

The extreme rabid Trumpers won't ever change their mind. Trump is right in that he could shoot somebody, and these rabid Trumpers would make excuses and exonerate him.

 

That much, I'm sure is true.

 

You don't understand the law well do you. One does not need to be proven innocent. One need to be proven guilty. If there is evidence that she is guilty, she would already have been locked up. People who makes are out to be so powerful have a bit of a logic problem. Because if she was that powerful like people are insinuating, Trump wouldn't make it to 2020, much less becomes president for a second term.

 

Did anybody change their mind today?

No, I procrastinated and never got around to changing my mind and the oil...

 

This is why I constantly find myself drawing parallels between fundamentalist religious beliefs and this apparent faith in Trump that we're seeing. Could also compare it to the conspiracy theory crowd, another that has reminded me a lot of the fundy religious crowd (especially where creationism is concerned). In all cases, these people are emotionally invested into the belief in question and adversity only seems to drive them further into it, to "strengthen their faith." Only religion bothers to address this dynamic formally and regularly describe it as a virtue, but the basic psychological dynamic is the same in all of these cases. It comes down to the same quirks in the human brain.

 

I think by definition, they ARE the conspiracy theory crowd. In other words, there is the deep state thing, but just to believe that trump is a competent president requires a lot of magical and conspiratorial thinking.

 

Well, yes, Trump definitely appeals to that crowd. That is an excellent point. At the same time, though, I think that Trump has brought a lot more people into that fold, so to speak. We're suddenly talking about a large part of the national population supporting a conspiracy theorist in chief. Maybe I have just failed to appreciate how many Americans are, in fact, conspiracy theorists. Certainly it's a weakness to which many people are prone, a normal part of human psychology.

 

Yeah, I think it's just a lot more common than most people think, and we haven't done enough to address the deficiency in critical thinking.

 

I wonder whether the failure stems from old fashioned thinking about education and the liberal arts. I think there's a long-running ideology which states that we are all "equal" and equally capable of learning to think critically, when in fact, most unfortuantely, we evidently are not. A lot of people just never learn that, and I think that a number of them never really could, that they lack the genes for it.

 

Well, in the spirit of critical thinking, I wouldn't want to speculate without knowing what the science and evidence has to say about all of that. That being said, what is old fashioned is that we don't spend much if any time learning what critical thinking is and how to do it.

 

My experience with people online is making me a little cynical.

 

Nice rewrite of recent history. Some of us were actually paying attention back then.

"ample time to prove her innocence?"
Silly me, here I thought the Justice System was predicated on convictions requiring proof of GUILT beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

laughing out loud at all these flag waving insta-patriots....these overnight nationalists who are pretending to be all upset 'traitor' Trump didn't get up in Putin's grill about Russia meddling in US politics (as if Putin doesn't know the US meddles in Russia's politics)

 

I understand why you would deride american patriots. After all, appeasement is the better way.

 

I don't know if Trump believes Putin or not. But I do believe he is trying to open the door to better relations with Putin. You get far better results being on friendly terms than you do in constant confrontations.

We are not going to attack Russia, Syria or Iran and things are not going to get better unless we have a way to get Russia to rein them in. While the Left want to talk tough, they said damn little the way Obama handled Russia. Talking tough sounds good, but how has it worked out for us so far in getting anything settled in the Middle East? There is only one way we can get Iran, Syria or N.Korea to do anything and that is with Russian and Chinese help. Don't expect that to happen as long as your will to keep up the confrontations with Russia and China. Yes, it sounds good to bellow out, but actions mean more than words. Even though you don't like the words Trump utters, his actions has shown he is much tougher than Obama was, but he's willing to compromise if that can bring on better relations. It's not much different than what Reagan did and it worked for him.

 

The DNC has refused to hand over the server to the FBI, so every single one of those claims in the indictment is not verifiable and can only be considered hearsay which will never ever hold up in the courts.

The FBI and the DOJ have in the past 2 years have a track record of being completely bias, you only have to the recent Strok hearing, where someone with a known complete bias against the president is still allowed to be an employee of the state. They have overlooked the Clinton emails which were one of the ways hackers were able to attack the DNC in the first place!!!

Yes, we should wait until we actually see the actual evidence the FBI and the DOJ have. The US has a huge track record of our intelligence community accusing a foreign power of wrongdoing, and then years later after thousands of deaths, these allegations were proven to be incorrect, just look at the Iraq war and the weapons of mass destruction.

Donald Trump has a leveled head and looks at the evidence, rather than media spin. This is why the US elected Trump over Clinton, if Clinton were in power we would be starting another pointless war today.

3link, the funny thing is we can prove them guilty, by first gaining access to the DNC servers, allow the FBI to do their job. Secondly, the FBI can travel to Russia and interrogate these 12 operatives. If it was any other party the media would be accusing them of obstruction of Justice for not handing over the servers, for deleting 33,000 emails and destroying the device.

I hope this is just your confected outrage over Donald Trump winning the election at the show. Because you simply can't be this stupid to believe the FBI, DoJ and the DNC when they have lied to you for so long.

 

Lets talk about appeasement. Wasn't it Obama who decided not to put NATO missiles in Poland after Putin told him it could start a war? Wasn't it Obama who was caught on open speaker telling Russia he would have more flexibility to work with them after the election? Wasn't it Obama who failed to give Ukraine the weapons they needed to protect their country from Russian backed insurgents trying to take over the government?