Do you believe Trump when he says he's taking hydroxychloroquine?

I wish you luck with that. Just remember you will need independents as well as partisans to win.

 

I’m concerned about lying doctors and lying politicians. You likely didn’t notice I’ve not defended anyone lying. Sorry to lay so many facts that conflict with your beliefs on you.

 

Would it be okay to lie to save a life? Would it be okay for a person hiding Jews from the Nazis to lie about there being no Jews in his home? I say yes. I'm sure you do too.

I've provided a hypothetical in which I think it would be okay for a doctor to prescribe a placebo. Feel free to address it if you want. That's the only instance (besides the one in the in the sentence above) in which I've defended the ethical potential of a hypothetical lie. You likely didn't notice I've defended anyone's actual lies, by the way. I've presented 2 hypotheticals.

I'm glad you share my concerns in Trump's lies as well, however.

 

If I believe something to be a fact, I often so state, and provide sourcing ( not always, we all make this error - some more some less )
If it's just an opinion, I just state it. I may or may not preface the opinion with 'in my opinion' or 'I think'

In 2013, congress, senate, the budget control act signed by Obama, called the 'sequester' was a bipartisan bill, and it affected the military and a lot of things. How it came about is a tad complex, but....

 

I wanted to add this line in an edit, but it timed out, so read the following after you read the other reply:

So it seems that republicans tricked Obama into signing a bill that would hurt the military and he would be blamed for it. Perhaps rightfully so, but...

The damning factor here is that republicans were willing to sacrifice the military in order to score political points.

 

Do you believe Trump when he says he's taking hydroxychloroquine?

Hard to say. He may just have said it so he could chuckle as he read the press about it. I think he enjoys poking the media.

 

Based on evidence provided in a number of books by authors such as, Rick Wilson, Malcom Nance, David Cay Johnston, Bob Woodward

etc

 

Virtually everything on this forum is an opinion including the "sources."

 

I’m more concerned with reality than hypotheticals. However, in your hypothetical, the doctor is prescribing because he is tired of the patient bothering him. He’s prescribing to benefit himself. That violates the conditions you set earlier.

In your initial response to me you seemed to accept without question or concern the practice of prescribing placebos. Perhaps I’ve misunderstood the meaning of you bringing up the fact doctors lie routinely. It gave the impression you were ok with a doctor lying to Trump because many other doctors lie. To me, that is defending actual lies.

Nazis killing Jews is a little hyperbolic in this context I’d say. I can tell you this...if a doctor lies to me for any reason I no longer do business with them. I don’t have a lot of experience with doctors. Been to see one once in the last 30+ years and I’ll be jiggered if I wasn’t lied to by him. Didn’t have anything to do with placebos or meds though to be clear. Now I’ll drive the 45 miles in one direction or the 75 miles in the other to avoid his emergency room if I have to. Some people prefer to be lied to in defense of their feelings. I’m not wired that way.

And no, I don’t hate doctors. Have a couple friends who are doctors.

 

Never OK. If the doctor can't tell me what he or she thinks, then he or she won't be my doctor again. My family doctor is brutally honest in everything she says. She pulls no punches. She has my respect and my continued business.

 

They tricked him for six years? Six years while they controlled the purse strings?

 

If that were true, you wouldn't be talking about my hypotheticals.

That's not the hypothetical in which I said prescribing a placebo may be justified. Please read the thread.

Then you need to work on your reading skills.

I'm not responsible for your misreading. I gave a hypothetical in which placebos may be justified. I can link to it if you want.

When people can't accept a basic proposition that, in actually, nearly every accepts, then sometimes appealing to a hyperbole is the only option to get them to see the truth.

Does this mean you won't ever vote for a candidate who has lied?

Some people prefer to be lied to in defense of their feelings, and thus vote for Trump. I'm not wired that way.

 

Feel free to read the hypothetical and let me know what is wrong about it. I'm open to debate.

Is it "never OK" for Trump to lie, or is that acceptable?

 

You can't be serious.

 

I’m more concerned with reality than hypotheticals. That’s why my posts contain so many verifiable facts. I did not say I was completely unconcerned with hypotheticals, did I? Reading comprehension?

It certainly is.

See above. If what you wrote wasn’t to normalize the behavior of prescribing placebo and lying about it you need to work on your communication skills.

No need. I responded to your hypothetical you put forth in post #194. The doctor is tired of the patient asking for a drug he doesn’t need. So instead of dealing with that problem, he takes the easy way out for himself and lies. That’s actually one of the actual reasons real doctors give for prescribing placebos. They are just tired of patients requesting drugs.

Ah yes, truth determined by the lemming method. Sorry, I’ll stick with my logic applied to verifiable facts.

I’m actually considering that possibility. Voting for the lesser of evils isn’t helping things.

Perhaps. But irrelevant to our exchange since I’m not a Trump voter. You will have to come up with something more substantive in this case.

 

If you were more concerned with reality than hypotheticals, that's what you would focus on.

Fake response. Try again. This time actually read.

The fault is in your literacy skills. Try again. This time read.

If you had read the post, you'd know it wasn't just due to the doctor being "tired of the patient asking." Please stop making **** up.

Again I ask that you quick making **** up.

Good.

Are we done with your inventions now?

You claim you are more concerned with reality than hypotheticals, so how much would it take to you respond to this post by only addressing the reality and not addressing any hypotheticals at all?

 

I have. That’s why I’ve presented facts on placebo use. You ignore those facts.

Here is the post.

You clearly state the doctor does not think the patient needs medicated. You clearly state the patient is repeatedly asking for meds. The only logical reason to prescribe meds in such a case is to stop the patient from asking. I informed you of the fact doctors that do prescribe placebos admit to this being a common reason to do so. See, reality. Of course there is another possibility. That is the assumption doctors should prescribe a placebo any time they see an unwell patient just in case it may help. I ruled this out because it is illogical and not based on reality. So we are left with just what I said. Your hypothetical is a doctor prescribing to get the patient to stop asking.

Seems silly to ask that when I haven’t made anything up. I’m sorry it upsets you I prefer critical thought to accepting things based on popular opinion.

Furthermore, the Nazi/Jew analogy is bizarre if you think it through. If a doctor is lying to save a life by lying , it necessitates the patient being both the Nazi and the Jew simultaneously. Not really based on reality.

Ah, so you are thinking of not voting in November as well. That is good. At least we can agree on that.

Are you old enough to understand the term “broken record”?

Well fellow PF member. If any logic was in play you would see that is impossible if I make any reply at all, because we are discussing your admitted hypothetical scenario. Thanks for the laughs though. I’m going to be charitable and assume the bold is humor and not complete detachment from reality.

 

I think you are going to be very disappointed in November.

 

That statement of mine is 100% ACCURATE in the CONTEXT that it was made so it is YOU that must withdraw your own utterly BOGUS allegation about me!

 

Which your Covidiot-in-Chief has done so your bringing up HIPAA was a mistake on your part.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Have a nice day!

 

Your Covidiot-in-Chief has FIRED doctors who don't lie for him about HCQ!

https://theintercept.com/2020/04/22...l-says-fired-limiting-use-hydroxychloroquine/

 

I said it is never OK for a doctor to prescribe a pacebo. Period. I didn't say a word about Trump.

 

More fake news. Bright a disgruntled employee who brought nothing to his testimony or accusations other than he is a disgruntled employee.

 

You're left with comparing doctors to hiding Jews? I'm paying the doctor and I'm paying the doctor NOT TO LIE to me but give me 100% truthful and accurate information and as I already showed the majority of doctors believe it would be unethical at the least to give a patient and charge a patient for a placebo.

 

Nope FDA approved the use.