And that's the crux of the whole UFO debate.Where is the physical evidence of their existence? If they are made of matter, where are the physical traces of their existence?. Where is wreckage from crashed probes, the trace elements/forensic evidence left behind at landing sights? The alien biological samples/ DNA analogues that any species visiting this planet would leave behind? Answer so far - nil, zip, nada. At which point we segue strait to 'conspiracy theory' territory and the perfect government 'cover up' - by the same government BTW that can't even run the US Post Office at break even.
Do you think any aliens know we are here ?? Assuming you mean extra terrestrial aliens then no, I don't believe so.
When an exoplanet is between us and it's star, and we are looking at the dark side of the planet, assuming intelligent life exists who have lighted much of the planet's surface, it's too bad we can't measure that ambient light level to determine if there is artificial light?
Well, back when I took Astronomy in the 2000s, One day I was taught about using spectrum lines to indicate what chemical element you are looking at. So, say Xenon, used in artificial lighting, can be observed by the spectrum lines it emits.
Well, Webb isn't really designd for that, as it's tuned for infrared. So, it won't even produce true color images - focusing more on super distant objects that are thus seriously red shifted. Also, it doesn't have a way to block starlight near a planet. But, we do have some atmospheric data from various missions. I think the first mission dedicated to seriously exploring exoplanet atmospheres is ARIEL, a European mission. That mission will also include an instrument from NASA called "Contribution to ARIEL Spectroscopy of Exoplanets," or CASE. I think that's scheduled for 2028.
This is actually very simple. First of all, nothing travels faster than the Speed of Light. 186k miles per second. It's not just a good idea, it's the law. That means that a species has to live within a certain distance of another star that hosts a planet that can support that form of life. Now in our example, we have 36 potential planets within a distance of 43 light years. And not a single one of them is capable of supporting human life. To hot, to cold, to dense, to much radiation, to unstable, to many suns, unstable suns, the reasons are many. But without a habitable planet within a relatively close distance (which we do not seem to have), it is unlikely we will ever really leave our solar system. And this is the same for most other potential alien civilizations. And to even develop a spacefaring civilization, you need certain things. For example, you can not have a constant cloud cover (like Venus), so that those that evolve there would have a reason to explore beyond what they can see. Then they would need at least 1 moon of a sufficient size to use as the initial goal for achieving space flight, and then to work as a springboard for further exploration. And they must have at least 1 other planet in their system that is capable of being landed upon. In our solar system, other than various other moons we actually only have 2. Mars, and Pluto. If every planet in a system is a gas giant or greenhouse hell there is no reason for a civilization to consider exploring more than their own planet and moon(s). Then you have the race with Extinction Level Events. On a general average, they happen on our planet roughly every 100 million years. That only gives a civilization around 100 million years to evolve, climb to that peak, and then leap outwards before it becomes extinct, or evolves into something else. Then finally, you have to have placement. We are on the inner rim of the Orion Arm, one of the minor arms in the Milky Way Galaxy. And we are believed to be inside the remnants of a nebula (that can probably be seen from farther away, but being inside we can no more see it than a fish can see water). And in addition, a placement on a spiral arm like this is almost required. Closer to the core, and you have the supermassive black hole to deal with. In one of the more densely packed arms and then you have more stars that can cause issues, like supernovas. In addition to the higher levels of background radiation in those regions. To far from an arm, then it is the opposite. Nothing to even try to travel to within a realistic distance. Now, are there other civilizations out there? Even those traveling in space? It is very likely, just given the huge numbers of stars that fit those criteria (and also the huge number of galaxies known). But outside of Science Fiction, nothing goes faster than 186k mps, so odds of any ever coming here are almost none. And for those that talk about following our radio signals, not likely. We actually do not leak out a lot of our radio waves, we use our atmosphere to bounce them around our planet, so actually relatively little makes it outside. And those that do are low powered, undirected, and also traveling at 186k mps. That means only around 512 G type stars could have even gotten the first radio signals sent (not that they could even make it that far). And assuming they have to get the signal, then travel to us at a fraction below the speed of light, that cuts that distance to around 50 light years. That is 64 stars. And then to throw this off even more, take into consideration the time dilation effect of traveling at close to relativistic speeds. So quite literally if a civilization 50 light years away somehow heard Marconi's first broadcast and decided to come and visit us, and they could travel at 0.99C. And they left within 20 years of getting that signal, we can expect to actually meet them any time now. Because at .99C, time dilation is double, so a 50 light year trip takes just over 100 years in normal space time.
I enjoyed reading your thoughts, good stuff. But are you sure the above is correct? Wouldn't time slow down for the inhabitants of the ship, but "space time" would still be 50 years?
In normal space yes, but at least in theory, there are shortcuts. https://www.space.com/20881-wormholes.html
The evidence lies in observational by humans and instruments of war and destruction . Since we cant shoot them down with our inferior tech we cant get pieces in hand. You cant hold a piece of the sun in your hand either Plus if you actually were up to speed you would know trace evidence of past landings have been left in imprints of landing gear. The air force took charge of a film shot by military photogs on a base where a craft landed. This is from the testimony of an astronaut who sent the film to higher ups . Fact.. And never informed the public . Until the astronaut revealed it years later. Indeed there has been overwhelming evidence these craft exist but most people are in ignorance and have not looked at it. Instead they like you wonder why there is none !
But our military has seen these wonder craft and recorded them on gun cameras as well as radar. The Iranian case even had the pilot try to close on one and had electrical failure until the craft moved away from the thwarted attack. On the tic tack one of several were targeted by the radar that locks on weapon systems and that radar was jammed ! We have advanced craft that can invade our airspace and even screw with our military and our military cant do a thing about it. And they for good reason wont admit it and instead play games like Blue Book.
I can imagine ET synthetic light is quite faint compared to it's surroundings but it's more a matter of having better technology, which will come from Webb and others, and soon I hope...
The Roswell UFO crashes are said to have been the result of our secret military forces using an electromagnetic beam weapon to disrupt the controls of the ET craft. A refinement of this suggests that the interference caused the two craft to collide. Other sources speculate on the role of a thunderstorm causing the demise of the alien craft. However, the notion of ETs capable of interplanetary or galactic travel being fatally susceptible to a planet's energetic weather effects is dubious.
I find it hard to believe we have the means to bring down these craft. For the interactions with different militaries that we know about leaves us in the dust . The number of alleged crashes of ufos is absurd . Just like these alleged abductions at night. Not buying it given my experience with human affections. What I do buy is these craft exist and we cant stop them. I have no idea who engineered them but to think we did is ludicrous unless there is a great conspiracy involving keeping tech from humanity that would solve the energy problem .
May have been cooper . Yet this event happened . And the landing and take off was filmed by our military .. And the developed film held in hand and looked at by this future astronaut before a special courier picked it up. If we filmed a Russian bomber flying in America over a military base would this be evidence of the event or would we require a piece of it to declare the event happened? Lol Only on ufos is holding the craft in hand is the required evidence! Lol
In other words, it is definitely a problem for our military. I don't believe a civilian investigation is going to get the full info on what they are doing. I don't believe our military will divulge what they know about what other militaries are dong. And, I don't believe they are going to give info concerning progress by corporations who are dedicated to designing and producing sysems they hope they can sell to our military. I highly doubt federal research money will go into a civilian project to study something so seriously overlapping our military. Neither congress nor our military would allow that. And, those who decide what research to fund would not spend research dollars that way, either. There is just too much to study already.
Apparently you haven't been paying attention to what the Pentagon has done about UFOs. Pentagon ran secret multi-million dollar UFO programme ... and then ... Leaked Documents Show Pentagon Was Studying UFO-Related Phenomena
Guilty as charged! Thanks for the link! I'm not much of a UFO fan. I just see this as a military issue, as nobody separate from the military is going to get the info required to really know anything. When someone asks why some university or other civililan science group doesn't address this problem, that's my answer.
1) Imaging data is not physical evidence. 2) Your 'begging the claim' here. It is entirely possible we can't shoot them down (inferior tech or not) because they do not physically exist - anymore than I can physically damage the image on a TV screen. 3) No but I can dispatch space probes that will collect physical samples of the particles it emits in magnetic containment vessels and that's not withstanding the fact the sun is a permanent/fixed physical feature of the solar system whose outputs and behaviors can be monitored 24/7 as opposed to random and transitory observations of objects that may or may not contain any physical components. If you were up to speed you would be aware of something called Locard's exchange principle which governs the physical interactions between physical objects (and people) that come into contact with one another. An imprint on the ground is an imprint. The object leaving that imprint will leave/deposit physical traces of itself at the time of contact. Likewise it will take traces of the the surface it left that imprint on with it when it leaves. Again - no physical traces of UFO's found - no traces of high tech particulate matter. And I assure you that any probe we have sent to other worlds, even if it returned completely intact would leave physical traces behind. Again this is film, and testimony - not physical traces. The evidence is not 'overwhelming' as you put it. For every piece of plausible evidence put forward there are hundreds of unsubstantiated and/or outright fraudulent claims (alien autopsy anyone??) of contact with UFO's. The best that can be claimed, especially regarding some of the excellent more recent US air force imaging data (collected via our 'inferior' tech) is that it is indicative of some, as yet unexplained sensor contact. So to paraphrase Jerry Maguire all I ask is that you 'show me the alien !!' And once again - I have no problem whatever with the possibility of intelligent, space faring aliens existing. I merely require physical proof of their existence. Now pony up.
Nope. For them time is constant, so the trip would take 50 years. It is the space outside of the relativistic vessel that is dilated. Hence, all the stories in SciFi where people who travel on ships that travel at close to C have their own culture. They leave on a trip then return. They are a few decades earlier, but everybody they knew is now dead of old age. I am talking "real world", not "Star Trek". This is a Science thread, not a SciFi thread.
The thread is about aliens and you're bitching about wormholes not being based on science? Maybe you should tell these quantum physicists they are wasting their time. https://www.quantamagazine.org/worm...e-black-hole-information-in-the-lab-20200227/
So if our fighter jets image and see a Russian jet shoot at our naval ships they would no see that as evidence You just went into stupid mode. Take off that filter so we get out of stupid mode. The water is fine where I am at .
