Europe accepts Ukrainian Refugees

The reason I said the men were not Syrian, was because I would watch the videos when they were arriving at the Greek islands. At the time the charge per person to cross from Turkey to a nearby island was 10 thousand dollars and the traffickers were making millions.

Many didn't survive the crossing because the waters are treacherous. The dinghies were packed to the hilt, and sometimes the motors would die. If the motors died in the Greek waters fine,, but if they were still in the Turkish waters then their survival rate was nil. People would watch the boats with binoculars, and at times the Turks would overturn them for who knows what reason.

The morgues on Lesbos were packed, and they said the most pathetic were the children. It turned out that some unscrupulous store owners in Turkey were selling life jackets for children packed with foam, so if the dinghie overturned, there was no way the children could survive.

In addition to the Greek coast guard, there were Frontex ships to help the refugees and also quite a few volunteers from Europe. Each day 4 thousand refugees would arrive, and the Syrian men were always with their wives, children and parents as well. The Iraqis also came with their families.

Later on though it was only men, yet most couldn't speak Syria even though they had Syrian passports and tried to pass themselves off as refugees. Most were from Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh etc.

 

Maybe the million refugees who fled Ukraine to Europe will constitute a new demographic balance for Muslims

 

If they are not Syrian, then what does that say about the claim that Syrian men leave their wives and kids in Syria while fleeing to Europe?

I also read that most of the dead were women an children who are less likely to survive cold water, but again, the claim is that women and kids were left in Syria.

Its ok. I know there was lots of anti-refugee propaganda and these days people are willing to believe & repeat just about anything.

Syrians speak Arabic, as do everyone else in the region, except Iranians.

They will have easier time assimilating, but whether or not they will be welcomes on long haul remains to be seen. The British were not happy with the "Polish invasion".

 

It was probably because the economic migrants that were coming to Greece had fake passports and they thought they were Syrians.

It really has to do with the waters between the islands and the Turkish coast. They can be quite treacherous. I've had the experience although if someone is a strong swimmer they can manage. I had a relative that swam the eight miles and even came back with something to prove it.

Only the Iraqis and Syrian migrants speak Arab, and most of the economic migrants smuggled in by Turkey are from non Arab nations like Pakistan. It's causing a major problem in Greece because they're not being processed to enter Europe.

They were taking jobs away from the British workers so they were resented. Normally they would be an asset to any nation since they are hard working. The Syrians are also an asset considering they're bright and very civilized, The problem is that most going into Europe are not Christians, and since they're Muslims they can't assimilate.

 

The Ukrainians will be in the same boat.

That's not how the Brits saw the Polish, even though most were employed in non-skilled / low paying jobs.

There are 1.4 million non-Christian Indians in UK and they have assimilated quite nicely. The Poles are Christians and they had issues as soon as they opened their mouths and people could hear the accent.

 

No doubt the UK has its share of anti-immigrant bigots, but for the most part concerns about immigration are far more complex than "jobs" or even nationalities. Not everyone understands that citizens of EU member countries have an automatic right to work and reside in any other EU country. Not surprisingly, people from poorer member countries gravitate to richer ones, the UK included. The UK is especially attractive because immigrants are more likely to speak some English than German or French, say, and it has a generous and relatively easy to navigate social welfare system. But, resources are already limited. Regular housing is in short supply and therefore expensive, social housing is in even shorter supply, the National Healthcare Service is always under pressure, many schools are over capacity, and so on and so forth. When new batches of countries join the EU, like Hungary, Bulgaria and Romania, it's easy to see how Brits would be concerned about new influxes of immigrants, and wonder where's it all going to end. And I guess a large share decided to make it end by voting for Brexit. I could be completely wrong but would guess that most are happy to reach out a helping hand to people escaping a crisis, however.

 

Sure. There was an influx of Poles into UK and locals were frustrated that there were so many people in England who didn't speak English. Ukrainians will be welcomed by all EU countries, but the sentiment is likely to change after they have been around for 2-3 years. If the war ends quickly, they'll probably return, but its starting to look like Russians are in process of leveling cities, and mass killing people, which will make it difficult for them to return.

 

You're pure out convivence ignoring my argument that Assad doesn't rage war against people who do not oppose him. So women and children are safe is Syria, while they drown, get raped, killed, robbed when fleeing to Europe. Hence the men go first and then arrange a safe passage. While you're cowardly aren't responding to my argument that there is no local army to join to oppose Assad unlike the Ukrainians who can join the Ukrainian army to oppose Russia. An Ukrainian army who get's 100,000's of bucks worth of free equipment to use... blasted all over the place to motivate them.... while the Syrians got jack all.

 

we supported who?

 

If you paid attention, you would have known that every time there was a false flag chemical attack in Syria, it would occur when the Syrian army was winning the battle and the terrorists needed help. By bombing the Syrians it kept the war going on.

I guess there was a dual purpose for it, because it was also a great way for our Washington psychopaths to lower the world population.

 

I don't do conspiracy theories.

 

I'm back just to add an other EU point of view.
In Italy we are welcoming the relatives of the Ukrainians who are already here: you cannot imagine how many Ukrainians live in Italy!

Now, the comparison with Syrians doesn't stand.
I repeat that this is a local viewpoint [Italian]. There are substantially a few Syrians in Italy, so that to accept Syrian refugees would have meant to have to manage a mess.

Ukrainian refugees come here to meet their relatives. This means that we haven't to manage the process: we have just to help them [why not with a bit of money ... after confiscating and selling the properties of the Russian oligarchs ...].

Ukrainians are always welcome in Italy.

 

Facts my dear man facts. Whenever the Syrian army was defeating the terrorists, there would be a chemical attack to give the Americans an excuse to bomb the Syrian army.

Now if you think it's logical for Assad to have a chemical attack when he was winning the war so the Americans can bomb his army to support the terrorists, then you have a big problem.

 

Jeannette, can you explain why this has happened, what Putin's motivations are, the feelings of Russians and Ukrainians, and what the likely outcome is in your opinion?Thanks.

 

How about selling the properties of the Ukrainian oligarchs who have stolen everything and kept the Ukrainians in poverty for so many years?

By the way, I hear that Russia is cutting the gas supplies. How are the prices going? Oh that's right, it's the average Italians that will suffer not the Ukrainians who have support from their rich oligarch relatives.

 

you do not have facts, you have an idea without any prove.

 

In Italy there are only properties of Russian oligarchs and their friends.
I live in a rich touristic place [Lago Maggiore]. Here we've got all [also Bin Laden's niece ... so, imagine ...]. I personally know some Russian very rich persons.

About gas supplies, you are wrong. Putin keeps on saying that he's a great friend of Italians [I personally had occasion, also here if I remember well, to say that Vladimir Vladimirovich is a friend]. Communication strategy aside, reality is that we are making business with Russia like ever before [!!!]. I've just seen statistics about Italian payments to Russia to buy gas and oil: we are exaggerating [also in these days, while the war is in progress].

Probably the situation will change [we will have to pay Algeria, Tunisia ...].

 

There were probably dozens of of "armies" to join in Syria, but the implication of "Assad doesn't rage war against people who do not oppose him" means you assume these people exiting Syria at the height of the migration is that these tens of thousands of military age males were opponents of Assad. I don't recall that ever being part of any news story I saw.

 

Military age males get DRAFTED in the army of Assad, women and children do not. How do you think the regime of Assad would react when they find out you are kindly declining that invitation? While you put "army" in quotations acknowledging it's not an army at all... with no structure or financial means somewhere remotely comparable to the Ukrainian army.

While you're not commenting on the fact the road to Europe is full with all kinds of potential danger for women and children, getting raped, mugged, killed, drowning etc.

The comparison remains utter nuts. It's so obvious. You keep on trying is making it seem this is pushing some anti Arab sentiment.

 

You know, you have not substantiated anything you've posted.

 

There is so much I don't know where to start. I just keep coming across so many things. Yesterday a Greek business and politician apologized to Vladimir Putin for the arms his government sent to Ukraine and said that we know you are fighting the World Economic Forum for all of humanity - which would basically be the One World Order and Government. That was verified when I came across a Ukrainian politician on FOX saying that they are fighting not just for Ukraine but for the One World Order - which I am adamantly against.

What I do know is that the One World Goverment the (Trotsky?) ideologues envision cannot come about without Russia since they control 1/3 of the world's natural resources. So instead of working with Russia for the benefit of everyone, what the 'elites' want to do is destroy it's leadership so they could change their heritage and culture and make it conform to their own liberal Western ideals.

Trying to destroy the Russian heritage culture is what infuriates the Russians - as it would anyone. I came across the following. Is it for all of Ukraine, half of Ukraine or what? I think it says it all:

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The Russian authorities removed the Ukrainian flag from their Embassy as well as the sign saying "Diplomatic Mission of Ukraine" and it will now become the Federal Republic of Ukraine. The writers of the Declaration state that their aim is to unify the people of Ukraine and to create a new federal state with no Nazism, and where everyone will have freedom of religion and the right to speak and study in their mother tongue..

It will have to be signed of course by representatives of all the regional and municipal councils in Ukraine.

DECLARATION:

We, the free people of Kharkiv, Mikoliav, Sumi, Chernihiv and other regions of Ukraine, declare and proclaim the formation of a new democratic state of the Federal Republic of Ukraine. Our aim is to create a democratic federal state with a free market economy.

Our goal is neutrality and friendly relations with all the states of the world. We ask all countries in the world to recognize the state of the Federal Republic of Ukraine.

The people of Ukraine have been patient for a long time, and only necessity obliges them to change their previous system of government. The history of the existence of the State of Ukraine is a set of countless injustices and violence, the purpose of which is the establishment of unlimited despotism and neo-fascist dictatorship.

To confirm the above, we are presenting the following acts that were committed against the people of Ukraine.

1. The glorifying of Nazi criminals who were guilty of genocide against hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians, Russians, Jews, Poles and people of other nationalities.

2. The freedom of speech and the press and freedom of assembly was abolished.

3. Political opposition was not allowed.

4. A surveillance system was put in place, and retaliation was applied against unwanted people.

5. The justice system was destroyed.

6. A corrupt model of state administration was created, which led to the exodus from the country of 7 to 12 million people who were deprived of their livelihood

7. The health system was destroyed, which has led to a catastrophic disappearance of the population.

8. Their educational reform was carried out, where they prohibited teaching in Russian, Hungarian and other languages

9. Finally, a civil war ensued in Donbass through their actions.

Therefore, we, the representatives of the regions of Ukraine, having in our hearts the sincerity of our intentions, on behalf and with the authorization of the peoples of these regions, are officially recording and stating that these regions are and rightfully must be free and independent.

They are free from any dependence on the Kiev authorities and that all political ties between them and the State of Ukraine must be completely broken off.

As free and independent states, they have the authority to declare war, to conclude treaties of peace, to form alliances, to trade, whatever is considered to be the right of an independent state.

Our aim is to unite all the peoples of Ukraine who do not want to tolerate the dominance of neo-Nazism and the bloody crimes on our land.

Our goal is to create a Democratic Federal State and carry out complete de-Nazism. A criminal law will be introduced for those who restored Nazism in our country.

-Our goal is to create a democratic federal state where each nation can speak its own language. The number of state languages will not be limited.

-Our goal is to create a democratic federal state, where the main objectives will be to safeguard human rights and freedoms.

-Our goal is to create a democratic federal state where religious freedom and the independence of the Church from the state are ensured.

-Our goal is to create a democratic federal state and punish war criminals who are guilty of unleashing civil war and mass bloodshed.

-Our goal is to create a democratic federal state with a free market economy.

-Our goal is neutrality and friendly relations with all the states of the world.

-We ask all countries of the world to recognize the state of the Federal Republic of Ukraine.

And may the Lord help us in this.

 

The people will only be killed if they are being used as human shields which they are by the neo nazis armies, or if they attack the Russians. I know in Syria, Russia had always opened corridors for the people to leave - something we didn't do in Mosul and Raqqa when we leveled the cities.

Anyway the opening of corridors for the people to leave, is the only thing that both sides had agreed too. Russia is in Ukraine for two reasons, one is to clean out the neo nazis such as Azov, Aidar, Right Sector, etc. and to demilitarize the country since it imposes a threat to the Russian Federation.

The problem lately though, is that Zalentsky has handed out 30 thousand rifles and has freed prisoners from jails. Also some people are being taught to make Malotov cocktails in order to create anarchy, I guess to turn it into another Middle East.

 

What is this I hear about Putin wanting to reclaim Kiev as a spiritual center to Christian Orthodoxy? Is there an antisemetic element here with Zalensky being Jewish?

 

I wonder if anyone else in the media has had this close of a relative leave Ukraine:

 

Today's antisemitism has to do with the neo nazis and their hub is in the West of Ukraine which is under the Pope and has nothing to do with the Orthodox Church. This is why that part feels closer to Europe and hate the Russians. The rest of Ukraine though are mostly Orthodox and under the Patriarch of Moscow.

I hadn't read about Putin wanting to move the Moscow Patriarchate back to Kiev. It originally was in Kiev and it would solve a lot of their problems - that is if the war ever ends. I just read that thousands of mercenaries are wanted to fight in Ukraine and in response Russia will be calling for troops from places like Kazachstan.

Putin said any mercenary that fights in Ukraine if captured, will not be considered a prisoner of war but a criminal. Gulag anyone?
As for Zalensky, his problem is not that he's Jewish, only that he lies and he doesn't carry through with anything. Then again he's probably getting his orders from Washington.