Fair Tax...yea, nea, or other

A progressive tax system has different rates for different incomes. Do you even bother to read what I post? I said twice now that in regards to investments people have manipulated the system so that it is regressive because they pay a lower rate. Do you support people with more money paying a lower percentage? If you don't then the only alternatives are a national sales tax or a flat tax where everyone pays the same. Every progressive tax scheme you come up with is going to eventually end up favoring one side of the other. Once again, we currently have a progressive tax system. People with higher incomes pay more money. What happened is that they were smart and manipulated the system so that they could pay less if they invested it and lived off the interest. Soros himself took advantage of that by delaying taxes for 7 years so he could grow his money faster. That is YOUR system. The only people defending the current setup are liberals. You claim that all we need to do is close the loopholes which is complete nonsense. They have been promising to close loopholes for decades if not longer. THEY ARE NEVER GOING TO CLOSE THE LOOPHOLES....EVER.

 

Unfortunately there is no way around the last part. The best we can do is simplify the system so much that even trained monkeys could manage it. Even with a national sales tax you still need employees to either hand out the advances or special ID cards that make them exempt. There is no way that a national tax would pass without some exemption for poor people.

 

So does a regressive tax system.

Do you even bother to read what I post?

Twice now I've stated I agree.

Why would you even ask that of me? Do you?

No, that is not the only alternative at all. Another alternative is a progressive system where the richer pay a higher rate.

I though you said it was regressive? " investments people have manipulated the system so that it is regressive because they pay a lower rate."

Which is it?

They won't as long as the people keep voting into power Republicans who protect those loopholes.

But you are confusing the concept of a simplified tax system with a flat tax system. A progressive tax system isn't any more complicated than a "flat" tax system. The rates are just higher based on income. It's a simple table.

What makes the system complex and unfair are all the exceptions, deductions, loopholes, privileged positions, etc etc. You can have those whether your tax rates are progressive or flat. Politicians are not going to close the loopholes any more under a "flat" tax than under a progressive one.

 

And the complications are in there so that it can be tweaked later on. Simplification is the key.

 

B-I-N-G-O, and Bingo was his name oh. Neither party is attempting to simplify it or eliminate the manipulating loopholes for their real masters. They both work for the same team at the end of the day, their actions show who and what they stand for.

 

I think they'd both like to simplify it, but in radically different ways. The fact that they cannot because each is blocking the other does not signify lack of desire or that they are "working for the same team".

 

Which makes you a perfect mark and a willing/obedient participant.

Any great con requires an ally who appears to be neutral or on opposing sides, and the two party scam is one of the most successful scams of all times. The fact that they deliberately sabotage every chance of solving anything shows they are both united in obstructing progress.

 

So what's your alternative proposal? A dictatorship? Pass.

 

The rich will merely buy themselves all kinds of exemptions in the 'flat tax' bills as they have in the 'Fair Tax' bills, that's how the heck they will be favored.

Has anybody ever read the small print in the last dozen or so 'Fair Tax' bills? By the end, you find out they merely push the tax burdens on those least able to afford the 'fair taxes', while those at the top end up paying near zero taxes. If you're going to slap a 17% tax on some minimum wage worker's groceries, he's paying a much higher percentage of his income on groceries than, say, Martha Stewart's rich neighbors, who spend maybe 0.001% of their yearly income on groceries. Why do most of these 'Fair Tax' bills exempt stock market purchases, for instance? If you're going to 'tax everything' with a sales tax, then indeed tax everything. If that were actually the case with these 'Fair Tax' bills, then the tax rate could itself be low; if you exempt large purchases only the wealthy can make, you've just made it heavily regressive and just another scam.

 

A big definite YEA. Upon reading some of the other posts from folks who say NO, I see that many don't understand how the Fair Tax works. It will not favor the rich and hurt the poor. It will not cause a sharp rise in prices. I see that we supporters still have work to do. And if you think a flat tax is the answer, remember that the system we have now started as a flat tax.

 

And as long as those examples exist only in your head, they are simple. Because there is only one point of view to consider.

But real life is complicated. This is a nation of 320,000,000 partners. Reconciling 320 million points of view and trying to be fair to 320 million different partners is a complicated challenge.



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As I have explained now three times. We have your progressive tax system. It was formed explicitly with the purpose of the rich paying more. In regards to income they still a higher rate but with investments they now often pay less. Your progressive system was manipulated and it will always be manipulated. Do you think we always had these laws? Over time one exemption after another is added or removed based on the whims of whomever is in power. Laws are added and rewritten to suit the needs of the political class. You cannot have a simplified progressive tax system because no matter how simply you make it initially people will always want exceptions. Eventually people may want to adjust the upper limit upwards so that they don't fall into that highest bracket or the lowest income people will want to pay an even lower rate. You cannot have a system with different tiers without corruption. It is impossible. The only thing to do is make everyone pay the same exact rate.

Your idea sounds great on paper but we both know that people will fiddle with it just as they fiddle with the first tax codes and turned them into the monstrosity that we have today. This isn't just conjecture this has been played out time and time again at the national level and the state level. Simplified progressive tax systems NEVER stay simplified.

 

Not without serious political repercussions. If the bill is only a few pages long any changes to it would immediately make front page news of every news organization and would amount to political suicide for politicians attempting to change it. As it is now the tax laws are so voluminous and incomprehensible that even IRS workers can't pass a basic tax law test.

Most of the fair tax laws I have seen referenced exempt groceries so they would still favor the poor as they spend a higher percentage of their income on food. This is one of the reasons I prefer a flat tax to a fair tax. My ideal fair tax would be a 1-3% tax on EVERYTHING under the sun. No more than that and since everything is taxed everyone has skin in the game. Outside of that a 10-15% income/capital gains tax for everyone is something I would also like to see.

 

Everyone should pay their fair share of taxes and if the fair tax were based on income 10% of 20,000 is 2,000 a year in taxes, where 10% of 2,000,000. is 200,000 in taxes a year. I would say the rich will still be paying their fair share. Obviously the taxes would most likely be more than 10%. Just because someone has the opportunity to earn a substantially large income should not mean they become penalized for it. Socialism is not good.

 

What we really need to do is overhaul the entire U. S. Tax Code and strip out ALL loopholes, shelters, exclusions, and exemptions. Until we do that, NOTHING about taxation in the United States will ever be fair....

 

#1. Stop electing corporate sock puppets, and stop believing the hype that is the two party scam.

#2. Go back the past 40 years or so and see who these people are really working for and stop being a mark.

3. Stop treating elected officials as if they are royalty or something other than the overpaid, over revered employees they are, and hold them responsible for a change. They are citizens of this country too and the law does not exclude them or their unethical/criminal antics.

The alternative of realizing that the country is being ran by the rich elites and their obedient sock puppets is a dictatorship?

 

Sorry for posting and then going silent, real life has been a (*)(*)(*)(*)(*).

So I have a few comments since I started this based upon the opinions above.

I am for the "Fair Tax" system over the "Flat Tax" system simply because it puts the control of paying taxes into a persons hands. Most of the "Fair Tax" systems I have seen proposed do not charge taxes on purchasing used items. So for example that poor family that people are going on about want a "new" TV. They simple go to the local pawn shop and buy one tax free. I doubt many people will take this option, but I think I could start a pretty good argument that they do this and that this may potentially make some jobs in the refurbishment/recycling area. I also understand that for political reasons there will have to be a debt limit put into place for people that don't have to pay taxes, and they would receive a month check like welfare recipients do now with that estimated value.

I also agree with many that the money from the rich will simply buy exemptions for them. That's why I also disagree with the "corporations are people" thought that the supreme decide was ok. That needs to be repealed and a maximum personal donation limit put into place. Not sure this will ever happen, but there is a movement to get this done. I have indicated it in my signature. I disagree with many of the positions that TYT takes, but I agree with this one.