Fast Food workers declare minimum wage "unlivable"

Liberals: because he is worth more, he should be paid more

Conservatives: Not my concern, let him improve himself or die.

 

Who thinks that McD will shut down? How about Wal-Mart? Oh, here comes the scare tactics like they will go overseas. We are the biggest consumer based country in the world. Conservatives are waiting for when we are not so that they can say "I told you so!". If workers do not demand more now, latter may be too late.

Also, there is a real problem with automation but conservatives bring it up only as a good thing. If the far, far future comes true, what do you want the American people to do? Die off?

We should be tackling these issues now instead of just bragging about automation. I can never understand why people want to build a machine that is more intelligent than us, can fix itself and create more of itself. Are they hoping to be replaced?

 

The E.U. surpassed our GDP in 2012. China's GDP has been growing by double digits for the last decade while we're celebrating 1.6% growth, and even if China slows to half it's current rate it will surpass us in 3-5 years. That's unavoidable at this point. It's already "too late." No one want's to say I told you so. It's tragically obvious. What people would like you to do is find ways to increase our productivity so we can begin to work on catching up. Automation is one such tool.​

Slowing progress so folks have "something to do" is just silly. If that's really your priority go make buggy whips or weave baskets, but don't pretend you're doing work or actually contributing to the economy. If you can't do better than a machine, you are not contributing.

Are we hoping to replace folks who cannot do anything more productive than flip a burger with a machine that does it better and cheaper? In the workplace: yes. Because it means overall we are more productive as a nation. And anything that increases our productivity at this point is not optional, it's imperative.


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Conservatives: When he is worth more, he will earn more.

Liberals: I need free stuff, cause I am a loser.

 

It would be impossible to raise minimum wage to a level that people can live comfortable. Especially on 30 hours a week. If they would quit sending jobs overseas and increase competion for workers. The issue would solve itself. When I was in Minot, North Dakota cleaning out flood damaged homes I was wading through raw sewage laced with black mold and abestos for $15 dollars a hour. Due to the shortage of workers the local fast food places paid $15 a hour to do whatever they do. Of course they were limited to 30 hours a week most of the time when I was over 100 hours a week for three months. The problem is far more workers than jobs. The prices at Micky D,s was the same as the place that pay $7.25 a hour. Do not know how but they were.

 

$135,000? That figure is wrong, both for labor cost and for the machine you describe. Doesn't mean the two don't equal out, but it must be higher.

 

My god, you have to be ancient. I am 70 and not that pessimistic. First comparing the many countries in the EU to the U S doesn't wash. China has a chance of catching us, especially if we continue to be as stupid as we are now. Doing nothing is a sure way to get below China. Why does the right want that? Obstruction will never work. And that is all the right wants.

See, I think productivity is fine. I think consumer demand sucks and wages suck. I think 30 years of this shjt has to stop. You think "productivity" and I think people. I am so tired that so many people can only think about business. That is terrible.

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God, what a stupid comment. You can not see what I am saying because dollar signs block your vision. Do not accuse me of stupid stuff.

I do not know if you guys believe this shjt but using some poster's name "WAKE UP!"

We are truly talking pass each other.​

 

The Mayor's been saying this for twenty years....

Oh, and do the numbers. A single burger joint could have a staff of forty, on various shifts, doing twenty hours a week. At seven bucks an hour, that turns out to be....7 x 20 x 40 x 50 = $280,000 in wages alone. Add in all the bull(*)(*)(*)(*) taxes, and the Socialist Security Ponzi Scheme, and the employer is pick up close to a half million in labor expense.

The dumb asses want to double their wages? That makes the overhead nearly a megabuck...and THAT's where automated food processing becomes profitable and desirable. Is there ANY restaurant owner who wants to deal on a daily basis with the emotional issues of a thirty year old Sponge Bob imitator?

 

Speaking of obstruction, let us know who it is that's standing in the way of the Keystone XL Pipeline and 40,000 real jobs. It's only one person, perhaps you know him?

Then there's the fool trying to kill US coal production. Can't name that guy, can ya?

What about the guy that's doing everything he can to stop the fracking boom? He's a racist, and his son looks like a recently deceased south Florida thug.

Then there's the guy that doing everything he can to get amnesty to millions upon millions of illegal alien invader criminals, guaranteeing thereby that law abiding American citizens will find it hard to find work. Don't know who that piece of trash is, do you?

Got any clue what idiot is pushing to have the CAFE standards raised to 54 mpg? Look at the damage he's doing to American productivity.

And then there's the fool that's destroying the world's finest health care system with an unconstitutional medical tax scam.

And did you ever hear about the idiot that's in his FIFTH YEAR of imposing the failed Kenyanesian economic system on the US, naturally stifling economic growth, as always happens?

Let's hear your opinion of the idiot that allowed the US to have the world's highest corporate tax rate, and has recently stated that he wants to raise taxes on small business to 40% federal tax alone.

Yeah, let's hear how the "republicans" are standing in the way of economic growth. Libturds are always good for a sick joke that isn't even funny.

 

I believe we should reserve labor through unemployment compensation to achieve a form of minimum wage that clears our poverty guidelines to solve simple poverty in our republic.

 

Homosexuals are obligated to not get married, cancer patients are obligated to not use medical marijuana, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I think you have a point, to some degree, I just think that the state's method of gaining ownership over the land was illegitimate. In 1901, my state arbitrarily declared sovereignty over my ancestors' persons and property.

That's pretty much the only difference between us, you acknowledge the state's sovereignty over everything, I do not. I find ownership as gained whenever someone mixes their labor with an unowned resource: ie: the land.

Have a little empathy for a moment and put yourself in other people's shoes. I could just as validly say you've bought the left's spiel.

You know nothing about me. I have more contempt for business than most. I merely live my life by the principle "do not initiate force", is that so bad?

Believe what you like, I'm just trying to help.

Sure I can accept that business is part of the problem.

I cannot support several of those measures because I don't want to initiate force, remember? I can't restrict them from doing business in my country, because they have some legitimate property here, and it's their right to trade their property, as it's the right of the person they're trading with to have that option.

Same thing with the tarriffs and taxation; partially taking their property is only a matter of degrees away from taking all their property.

That said, business is not innocent in all this. It get massive, ridiculous subsidies, and the benefit of limited liability, and regulation which forces out small business, etc.

Not everything is so black and white, mate. I'm for equality under liberty.

Why do you defend terrorists? You don't want them to be tortured, after all - even if it could potentially give you good information that could save lives. Why? Is it possible that it's because you hold liberty as a higher principle than just flat out consequentialism, at least in some cases?

We're not so different, you and I

I don't accept much of your argument, sort of like how you don't accept much of mine.

Haha, I was a little drunk when I said that, sorry. All I'm saying is that we shouldn't feast on the souls of corporate CEOs, but give them what they're due; nothing more, nothing less.

I'm not concerned with that conception of choice, I'm concerned with my own conduct and how congruent it is with liberty. The conflict of values between all people is unavoidable, even in some sort of utopia. The best we can do is try to get along.

?? I'm not quite sure how you figure. Companies have been moving overseas for decades.

 

The figure is quoted in the business plan of one maker of smart ovens (*). This is a national average and it's only labor, benefits and management of labor could make this number higher in many restaurants.

As to the cost of the smart ovens, the same company offers their product for less. So there is less uncertainty in the machine cost.


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China is currently at 80% of our GDP has has been showing annual double digit increases the last decade, while the U.S. has seen negative GDP growth with good years of 1.6%. If China continues to grow at even 7.5%, they will equal our current GDP in three. It's a pretty safe bet they'll pass us in 3-5 years.

I don't think anyone in the U.S. want's that. We all liked being #1 (before the E.U. passed us in 2012). I just think many folks agree it's too late to stop the all too predictable next three years where China will pass us both.


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Productivity is not fine, our rate of productivity has stalled and even declined. Demand still exists. People still want things and will spend on them. They just spend more these days on things produced in other nations because those nations are doing a better job of producing them.

But I agree with you that the key to unlocking productivity in this nation is people. Folks need to stop assuming an ever increasing lifestyle is their birth right and start asking themselves what exactly they are contributing. The guy flipping burgers the same way his grandfather did but expecting smart phones, electric cars, and interactive TV needs to do more or take less.


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If 80% of people want a higher minimum wage, how is it being "forced down their throats?"

 

If it is 80%, it's unlikely those 80% are the ones asked to pay the wages. It's fine for 99% of us to want more money, it's not fine for us to demand it from others.



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The employer picks up only an additional 7.2% and workmen's comp. The payroll tax would be $20,160 and I am sure that workmen's comp is lower that that. Maybe a little over $300,000. Now what were the sales and what were the profits? What would a $3 dollar wage increase cost? 10 * 20 * 40 * 50 = $120,000. So maybe $129,000 more. Now that would be a payroll $400,000 with $29,000 payroll tax. So the increase would then have the employer paying the half a million that you said was alright. So you should favor the $3.00 increase.

The workers are asking to double their wages. Do you know anything about workers/management negotiations? I know that it has only happen rarely in the last 30 years but usually not everybody gets what they want.

 

Let us know who is lying about the jobs and not concerned about the environmental effects of having the thickest worst oil cutting through our country. How much will the Koch Brothers make off of it? And most of the oil will be shipped overseas because we don't want that kind of oil. Sending more pollutant oil through our country and getting very little money for our economy. We can wipe that out with one pipeline rupture.

Facts: It might create 40,000 jobs (direct and indirect) for 2 years and 50 (FIFTY) permanent jobs after that. We do not use tar sands oil. Other countries do. The Midwest will lose refineries to the South. There could be an increase in gas prices because of the costs associated in production of tar sands oil which are higher than other processed oil. More tar sands oil being in the market offsets the price of all oils. One environment problem with the pipeline could be like another BP disaster. This oil really hurts the environment in a short term disaster and a longer term environmental problem with more pollutants in the air.

What about more sinkholes and leakage into ground water supplies. The right wants to expand things until they are proven to be bad. I want a study on the environment telling us whether it is good or bad before great expansion happen.

And than rant, rant, rant. Oh, Btw, we have had our 40th repeal of Obama care which have cost $60,000 million.

 

Here I disagree. I do not buy any left propaganda and I will call them out when they are wrong. I use my words to explain my views and google a lot before posting. Your posts seem to be using the same words as the right propaganda. If you said it in your own words, I would believe you more. BTW, I see more of your own words in this post.

I think so because we have bad doers who will take advantage of loopholes. We just saw an administration who had regulations, ignored them and Wall Street crash. Sorry, there are too many greedy people who must be kept in check. Do businesses really care about workers' wages and living conditions. It is an expense to them and they really care only about reducing that expense. That is what businesses do. I am not saying it is right or wrong. I am saying that the playing field between workers and management has sloped down management way for too many years. I do not see workers having any real say in their worth.

I understand your view but can not accept it. We agree on subsidies and other big business breaks but they may be the hardest to change because of the money spent to get them and the money that will be spent to keep them.

Some of my suggestions might get some GOP support. Doing nothing is not an answer. Actually sitting down and talking about the real problems caused by big businesses may possibly come up with some bi-partisan support.

Sorry, I am more concern with choice because people plus workers should have choices. That is real freedom. Even on abortion, my concern about choice overrules any view that I have about abortion.

I am more concern with fixing things that getting along. We will have to disagree.

Yes, they have because they are no longer American business and they do not care about American workers. I want to give them reasons or penalties not to do that. Our worker productivity improves every year but we should not need to go down to the wage standards and living standards of third world countries to compete.

Whew! Long post. I do not like long posts. You have to make too many corrections and I did.

 

You didn't reply to my comment. You gave me facts that I already know.

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Interesting, I was talking about labor productivity and you jump to business productivity. Different points of view.

Consumer demand may be coming back but government and business demand has gone down. No matter how much people hate government spending, it still affects our demand. Not enough increase in consumer demand has offset the less government demand. Businesses have the money but do not use it to create enough new productivity. Other countries are not creating better products (many, worse products). They are creating more products because they have a lower standard of living.

You really have a low opinion of most people. I do not. I see people wanting to get ahead and very few wanting government handouts. They want help to get around roadblocks but they certainly do not want to stay on the government dole. People like you think that it is outrageous that 47% do not pay income taxes. I agree but you blame them and I want them to make enough to pay taxes.

You guys call them lazy and playing the victim card. I see them anxious to NOT be a victim.​

 

Jeff, just a small correction. Doesn't change what you said. I said that 80% were demanding better wages. 71% want the minimum wage raised. Some do not realize that raising the minimum wages will also improve their wages.

 

I don't eat any of this fast-food crap, but if I did I would want the best quality at the best price -- whether the food was prepared by robots, humans, or whatever. If McDonald's wants to double the pay of their line employees, that's their business. They would probably need to double the price of the food items, too, and that COULD affect sales, especially if competitors don't follow suit! I know it's a hard concept for socialists to grasp, but the marketplace controls who pays what for what -- whether human labor, robot labor, ingredients, or anything else. Mod edit: Rule 2

So, if all you're worth is minimum wage, either work for it, or just sit back on your ass and let Comrade Obama send you subsistence welfare in the mail every month. But remember -- one day there won't be anymore Comrade Obama! His idiotic welfare state is crumbling at the seams and it won't exist in its present form in another four years. Unfortunately, for people who think their bright, glowing future consists of working 30 hours a week for minimum wage, it will be too late to do anything else and they'll be located permanently at the bottom of society, with the dead bodies and saturated turds....

 

How does raising minimum wage raise other people wages? It increases inflation that makes their wages worth less. I have never recieved a raise from minimum wage being raised. Government rules and regulation when it comes to benefits usually have as many negatives as positives that go with them. Overtime is nice but makes it unlikely you will be allowed. to work over 40. Insurance is nice but requiring employers give it employees both reduce their actual pay as well the number of full-time employees. Every action has a opposite reaction from my experince.

 

King Obama, and clearly you, are lying about the jobs.

The Mayor doesn't give a rat's behind about the quality of the oil.

Yes, you're definitely a swiller of Red Kool-Aid.

Meaning the US will get jobs and make a profit.

How AWFUL that must be.

Gee, then we should drill more of our own oil, then.

Yes, definitely the Strawberry brand of Red Kool-Aid, with a streak of brown-nose added in .

 

republicans say we should get rid on min wage, cause employees would not work for less then a living wage... course when employees complain.. republicans are right there to bash them for that too

what republicans really mean is corps should be able to pay employees what ever they want and employees have no right to be upset if they are under paid

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Isn't that how a Democracy works?