Fetal Pain Is A Lie: How Phony Science Took Over The Abortion Debate

A little devils advocate coming your way....

What about when a wife decides its time to pull the plug on her husband? Is that murder?

 

Have you been working on a bill to make all these women murderers.

 

Can't have his head crushed and blended and sucked up with a vacuum... no.

You can turn of machines. Can't smother him with a pillow.

 

No, I read the other poster after I read your post. Do you read all posts before you answer a post?

 

Does the method used really matter ? Turning the switch has the same effect as a pillow . Loss of oxygen to brain .

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Sometimes , sometimes not .

 

I don't think most pro-abortion folks care much for late term abortions. They put up with them to avoid defining a human child when in-utero. They seem to justify this postion based on the limited numbers. It is a horrible rationaliztaion of convenience.

 

Yes, the method matters. If you fall off a ladder or I shoot you matters, though the result may be the same. An adult who cannot sustain their own life is different than an infant. You cannot just let them fend for themselves. That is gross neglegence. There is also no possible future for the guy on the machines. There is only the best possible hope for the future of a child.

 

No, if you fall of the latter that is your fault. If I shoot you, its my fault.... two completely different concepts. Does it matter if I stab you to death or shoot you to death is the appropriate comparison, and the answer is no.

As far as possible hope, people wake up after 10 year comas and other medical mysteries happen as well.

 

Coma's do not usually require life sustaining equipment outside a feeding tube. Brain damaged people are the ones whose brains stop regulating their lungs etc.
Artificially sustaining vegetables life != naturally sustaining babies life.

There is also no invasion of the hosts body. They turn of a machine, not violate their bodies.

The body of a human is clearly defined by their DNA. To destroy their body for the purpose of ending their life is not the same as sustaining a brain dead person beyond their natural limit.

 

I would if I could.

New DNA is new life. Abortion is the ultimate in selfishness, murder for convenience.

 

Yeah good luck with actually trying to enforce that.

 

As a Neonatal RN for over 20 years I can say through fact and experience that 23 week gestation newborns in fact feel pain. Especially given the fact that I insert IV catheters in them.

 

A baby has a brain at 20 weeks, it can feel pain. Its that simple.

This is not about the privacy of the mother and her doctor, this is about the life of a baby.

 

An odd perception, given the conclusion of this research. To ignore the final sentence and conclusion is the usual anti-abortion misdirection and twisting of science.

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Except for the fact that doctors know pain happens.

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Wow this just blew up their thread.

 

I've never met a pro-choice person who cares much for abortion at any time. Abortion is to birth control as war is to diplomacy - a last resort when all else fails.

Not really. They put up with them because by the time they're necessary, they are the least worst choice. The goal should always be not to become pregnant if you do not wish to be pregnant. Anti-abortion fanatics seem to lose sight of this.

No, it isn't. Abortion as a cure for pregnancy is like amputation as a cure for gangrene. You do it because every alternative is worse. Not because you want to.

 

Aren't assertions easy?

This is about individual liberty, nothing else. The anti-freedom crowd isn't about to play fair, and allow those of another religion to require them to abort against their will. But THEY want the power to cram THEIR convictions down the throats of others. This isn't about life and death at all, it's about religion, and about power, and about keeping the poor in their place, and about letting women know that they are second-rate people.

And it's that simple.

 

Nope, what it did was miss the point completely. Whether a fetus can feel pain, whether it can think, whether it has a heartbeat, these are issues of biology. Abortion is not an issue of biology, it's a matter of human rights.

There are many circumstances where humans kill humans. Sometimes they get Congressional medals of honor for doing it! Circumstances matter, except to blind fanatics.

 

A fine fiction that likely softens the edge of baby murder. Abortion is often the first result of the irresponsible. A baby is murdered by the thoughtless.

 

Mod edit>>>Rule 2<<<

Life Cycle, Human

 

No babies are involved, no murder is involved. Truly lousy public policy is involved, but to understand that you have to open your eyes, and that's hard on the lunacy.

 

You clearly have hung out with a higher class of women than I.

I am actually pro-choice. I just accept my hypocricy. I find the world barrelling toward overpopulation, and find the product of having kids you don't want damaging to society. I still think it is killing a human being under a loophole.

You do it because the perception is worse. Babies aren't flesh destroying things that will kill you usually.

 

You mean, given the choice between an unwanted pregnancy followed by an abortion, and no unwanted pregnancy in the first place, the women you know would CHOOSE the former? I'm dubious.

The language here makes discussion difficult. A fetus is human. It is NOT a baby or a child or a person. Killing it is unfortunate and to be avoided if at all possible. It is NOT murder.

Perception of what? I am not following you here. Bearing a child is an enormous responsibility and expensive beyond belief. Most women who get pregnant by accident don't realize that yet, which makes them the worst possible candidates to be parents. Forcing unwanted pregnancies to become unwanted children is cruel to both parent and child.

Now, I agree some women are stone stupid, and have one abortion after another but never bother with birth control. This is what education should be for. Instead, we practice two types of education - abstinence only (which always fails), and "I don't wanna know, figure sex out for yourself", with no better results.

 

This is the reason they believe in Global Warming or Climate Change or whatever the catch-phrase they are calling it today.

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These are the same types of people who want you to stop boiling lobsters.

 

You have to wonder why scientific expertise turns people liberal, and the more expertise they have, the more liberal they become. It's this education crap, man. We just GOTTA keep making it worse, I tell ya. We're on a roll, don't stop now!

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Wait, you have it backwards! It's the pro-life people who want to stop the killing, lobsters included.