From Militant Atheism To Christ

True, though the blame is not completely unwarranted. Evil could have been prevented from existing. God chose to allow it to exist and negatively influence humans.

 

KAMALAYKA does have a point again, though. Forcing someone into a situation where they must choose between two options is usually seen as wrong.

 

God allowed contrasts so we have a choice. Instead of griping...just make the right choices.

 

Humans are supposed to be grateful for that kind of existence? Danger (sin) is allowed to exist in the first place, so that Jesus can be sacrificed to save us from what God could have prevented all along?

 

Consider this point. If you created the world and the people in it you created in your image what kind of fellowship would you have with those people if they were made without choice? Would that be fulfilling to you? If you had children, and maybe you do, you could use the following analogy..... Many have children that rebel and mock their parents. Perhaps in the same family, there is a child that desires to embrace the virtues taught to the by their parents. That child is a true blessing. Every parents dream. And it is also apparent that child was a blessing to his parents by his own "choice". Choice is what makes it special. God wants to be our Heavenly Father.
He created us for relationship..

 

Life is never easy, so under Earthly circumstances that is good advice. But this is not the same as someone spoiled complaining because they don't have the car or house they want. Or even the kind of life or job they'd rather have. I'm annoyed by my life everyday. Some I blame on "free" speech. Some, I am fully aware, is my own fault for worrying too much about what others think of me or things I like.

One of the issues I see is what good is having choice if there is a wrong choice?

 

Thank you, yabberefugee. These are interesting takes on the idea I have thought about, but never actually heard from anyone.

To answer the first part of your post, if I created the world and it's people without choice, I would likely have a good relationship with them because they would all be made to think like me. And personally, that would be fullfiling. They would be little more than "pre-programmed robots" in a sense, but they would be happy and safe. And I would enjoy watching them be content while they lived in complete harmony with eachother. Unlike programmed machines, while they would not have choice, they would have consciousness. Each would be an actual, individual living mind capable of feeling the most horrible negative emotions and sensations if I allowed it. But I would feel that doing so would be wrong. They would be living beings that I am responsible for. Even if I did allow them the capacity for making choices I wouldn't agree with, I would not let them suffer long as I was the one who burdened them with the ability to make choices I'd not like.

As for the second part, I agree that choice makes something special. It is that fact that the God in Christianity allows the consequences for choosing not to love Him to be so severe that I take issue with. More on this later.

Also, I haven't forgotten about telling you my own story as you did on a post some time ago. If you like I can share that soon.

 

I would be interested in your story. As to the severe consequences of Christianity you refer to.... I am not so sure about the "weeping and gnashing of teeth." I know of places in scripture where comparisons are made in the extreme. For example: Jesus said, " “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. Well we know that Jesus did not really want us to hate our mother and father. In many other places he has said to "honor your parents. What Jesus is acknowledging is the fact we must be soley dedicated to living the Christian life in contrast to how we love our parents. Loving Jesus only helps us to love our parents more. It is a contrast. So it is with the wonders of heaven. Heaven will be indescribable. No more pain or suffering. New adventures we cannot imagine. Perhaps hell is just more of the same we experience now. Hell is getting what you want with your current finite mind. In contrast to heaven, it will seem like "weeping and knashing of teeth."

 

Why do I need to provide evidence for my own beliefs? Are you saying you need to provide evidence that there is nothing beyond the physical universe? That it just magically popped into existence at the Big Bang for no rhyme or reason?

 

BZZZT Wrong!

There is nothing at all "trollish" about pointing out the absurdities in certain statements.

However you are free to report such posts if you believe that they violate PF rules.

 

Once again with the puerile ad homs because your posts lack substance!

You never asked me to cite any of your posts.

You merely asked me to point out what kinds of erroneous assumptions you were making which is exactly what I did.

That you have to move the goalposts is a sign of immaturity that you cannot deal with legitimate criticism.

Since you have intentionally and maliciously decided to make this into a personal issue about me I am giving you a timeout.

Only your posts containing on topic substance will be responded to it in future. If you continue to make puerile ad homs you will be reported.

Enough is enough.

 

Your god is blameless for entrapping Adam and Eve?

Your god is blameless for drowning everyone and every creature on the entire planet?

Your god is blameless for murdering the innocent first born of Egypt?

Your god is blameless for ordering that the Israelites cut open pregnant women in order to kill their "unborn children"?

Your god doesn't get a free pass for violating his own commandments because that is hypocrisy as well as mass murder!

 

So there is this imaginary "god given choice" that everyone is supposed to have but theists want to deny women their right to exercise their own "god given choice"?

Isn't that disrespectful of your god's intentions that theists won't allow others to exercise the choice that he has given them?

 

Another issue is that what is the best choice for you might be the worst choice for me.

 

sounds more logical then a God just popping into existence for no rhyme or reason and then creating everything... only thing you did is make something much more complicated like a God pop into existence before that to explain it instead

and of course if you say a God always existed, then the same could be true of energy, thus blowing away your argument for a God being needed

 

Muslims and Christians both believe in the same Jewish God, if one says the Muslims God doesn't exist, then none of them exist as they are all one and the same

 

John 8:58 Jesus laid the claim to be God Almighty Himself when He said; "Before Abraham was I AM". So no, they are NOT the same.

 

Jesus was a Jew and therefore he was blaspheming by claiming to be the Jewish god.

Since Christians now claim that Jewish god as their own that means that the Christian and Jewish god are one and the same.

Muslims believe that they are all descended from Abraham in the OT. Abraham worshiped the Jewish god so therefore Allah is just another name for the Jewish/Christian god.

So yes, they are all one and the same deity assuming that said deity even exists.

 

the Jewish God is the God of both religions, thus they are one and the same God

all three are Abrahamic religions

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions

 

I feel a specific religion is to narrow.
If there is some being wanting human interactions for some reason, it won't limit the humans based on a illogical set of rules.

 

It's quite entertaining that you feel your judgement is righteous and you imply it to the Creator of all heaven and earth. You limit your understanding to only what you perceive in your limited mind and that makes you very shortsighted in how you perceive others let alone the Big Picture.

 

You don't exercise choice over the life of another plain and simple.

 

Many religions focus on spirituality.
Buddhism might be the closest? Without all the strings most other religions attach.

 

It is surprising, which makes it illogical.

 

Yahwah didn't offer those options. It is the jewish god and jews don't believe or have those options. Christians bastardized the yahewah religion.