Global warming - a few reasons you might want to be concerned

Hey...someone here was providing a Graph that on the side of it had BP....which stands for British Petroleum!! LOL!!

But hey....THEY ARE TELLING THE TRUTH....another member assured me! LOL!!

AboveAlpha

 

Replying to those who agree with you, is probably your best bet.

 

My humble apologies for keeping you waiting, but I've been busy with more important things.

You just lost your bet.

Please note the word "gas" in the preceding quote fro Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_vapor

http://www.weatherquestions.com/What_is_water_vapor.htm

And there's this, from SkepticalScience, probably one of your favourite websites,
[h=1]Explaining how the water vapor greenhouse effect works[/h] Link to this page
[h=2]What the science says...[/h] [TABLE="width: 570"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 18%"]Select a level...[/TD]
[TD="width: 23%, bgcolor: #E2F0D2, align: center"] Basic [/TD]
[TD="width: 2%"][/TD]
[TD="width: 23%, bgcolor: #E2F0D2, align: center"] Intermediate [/TD]
[TD="width: 2%"][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E2F0D2, colspan: 6"] Increased CO2 makes more water vapor, a greenhouse gas which amplifies warming
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


Please tell me how many more citations you need before you will admit that water vapour is a gas?

 

H2O certainly can exist in a pure gaseous state. What do you think happens to liquid water in a vacuum?

 

Interestingly, it was just announced today that scientists have observed plumes of water vapor on Ceres, the largest object in the asteroid belt.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...ater-vapor-discovery-space-asteroids-science/

I guess these scientists must not realize that H2O cannot exist by itself as a gas. PERIOD!!! Perhaps we should inform them that it's not actually gaseous H2O, but tiny droplets of liquid water "suspended in a mixture of Nitrogen, Oxygen, CO2, CH4, and other trace gases"?

 

I apologize for not communicating so that you can understand my points.

I have not disputed that the web site does as you indicate - never did. My point is that we have been discussing climate a very long term measure of weather. In response, you keep bringing up the web site which shows 20 second updates of independent data without in any way tying the data together. - and certainly have not tied these data to AGW. Thus, the three independent data sets add nothing to the discussion of climate.

Just to nail down the point - I do not dispute the web site's data - never did. However, I've seen nothing that says the folks working for CDIAC "have to be the BEST". There are dozens of scientific organizations within the government and private enterprise that have scientists of extremely high caliber. The government, typically, can never afford "the best". But even granting you the point, adds nothing to the discussion about data in support of AGW.

Simply displaying a graph of CO2 says nothing about the percentage of CO2 that is natural versus man made - nor whether that CO2 contributes to global temperatures - nor whether that CO2 is causing tornadoes, etc. Have I made my point yet? A simple graph like that explains little - it simply shows the amount of CO2.

How about those five questions I asked? I'm willing to discuss them with you IN DEPTH.

 

First of all we are talking about in Earth's atmosphere.

When a Container of Liquid Water is released in a Nasa Vacuum Chamber since there is no pressure H2O molecules will separate into individual H2O Molecules thus one would THINK Water would become a gas...right?

Not really.

What happens is the H20 Molecules will explosively boil out and since there is no air for the H2O to be suspended in the individual Water Molecules will explode out and fall to the floor adhering to the floor they WILL NOT float freely.

Now let's say we did the same thing with an amount of water and released it in a much smaller vacuum tank...the water would again boil off but adhere to the sides of the tank.

In our Atmosphere H20 cannot exist in a pure Gas form....but even in a Vacuum....it cannot fill or free float as a Gas as the only way H2O could completely fill a tank would be as a liquid.

Understand?

AboveAlpha

 

From your own link....

"It's not an atmosphere like Earth's in that most of the water escapes into space due to Ceres's comparably low gravity. In that respect it is more similar to a comet," Küppers says."I do not expect a stable atmosphere."

Instead of cometlike ice patches, Raymond hopes to see water-spewing geysers (a phenomenon known as "cryo-volcanism") spouting from the asteroid when Dawn arrives at Ceres. That's because Dawn could fly through a geyser plume and analyze its contents.

What these words mean....""cryo-volcanism".....is that a combination of various stored gases deep Ceres are OUT GASSING Micro-Crystalline Ice Particles very much like what makes up a CLOUD.

It is TOO COLD for Liquid Water to exists thus the term.....""cryo-volcanism"

AboveAlpha

 

Just to add your own article link states this is like what happens when a Comet ejects Ice Particles to form a tail.

AboveAlpha

 

The CDIAC data shows us that as CO2 levels increased so did and does Global Temps.

It also demonstrates that CO2 levels and Temps. did NOT begin to rise until the advent of the Industrial Revolution...thus Man Made CO2 is the ONLY possibility as there has been no increase in Volcanic Activity.

Which post are your questions on?

AboveAlpha

 

I'm sure you have a link that backs this up?

 

However, all throughout the article, and many others on the same subject, these scientists are using the phrase water vapor (gaseous water). For some reason they keep using that term over and over, rather than saying micro crystalline ice particles.

"The water vapor observations came during a time when Ceres was at its closest point to the sun, an occurrence known as the perihelion, on its 4.6-year-long orbit of the sun, Küppers says.That timing suggests that the water vapor spewed from ice patches on Ceres's surface, sublimating into space like a comet shedding a tail as it warms on a plunge past the sun."

You do know what sublimation is right?

 

Here you go.

Forms of water

Like many substances, water can take numerous forms that are broadly categorized by phase of matter. The liquid phase is the most common among water's phases (within the Earth's atmosphere and surface) and is the form that is generally denoted by the word "water." The solid phase of water is known as ice and commonly takes the structure of hard, amalgamated crystals, such as ice cubes, or loosely accumulated granular crystals, like snow. For a list of the many different crystalline and amorphous forms of solid H2O, see the article ice. The gaseous phase of water is known as water vapor (or steam), and is characterized by water assuming the configuration of a transparent cloud. (Note that the visible steam and clouds are, in fact, water in the liquid form as minute droplets suspended in the air.) The fourth state of water, that of a supercritical fluid, is much less common than the other three and only rarely occurs in nature, in extremely uninhabitable conditions. When water achieves a specific critical temperature and a specific critical pressure (647 K and 22.064 MPa), liquid and gas phase merge to one homogeneous fluid phase, with properties of both gas and liquid. One example of naturally occurring supercritical water is found in the hottest parts of deep water hydrothermal vents, in which water is heated to the critical temperature by scalding volcanic plumes and achieves the critical pressure because of the crushing weight of the ocean at the extreme depths at which the vents are located. Additionally, anywhere there is volcanic activity below a depth of 2.25 km (1.40 mi) can be expected to have water in the supercritical phase

LINK....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Properties_of_water

AboveAlpha

 

Here is more....

Evaporation and sublimation[edit]
Whenever a water molecule leaves a surface and diffuses into a surrounding gas, it is said to have evaporated. Each individual water molecule which transitions between a more associated (liquid) and a less associated (vapor/gas) state does so through the absorption or release of kinetic energy. The aggregate measurement of this kinetic energy transfer is defined as thermal energy and occurs only when there is differential in the temperature of the water molecules. Liquid water that becomes water vapor takes a parcel of heat with it, in a process called evaporative cooling.[5] The amount of water vapor in the air determines how fast each molecule will return to the surface. When a net evaporation occurs, the body of water will undergo a net cooling directly related to the loss of water.

AboveAlpha

 

DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A VAPOR AND A GAS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Key difference: The term gas is used when the substance is in its gaseous form. The term vapor is used when the substance is in equilibrium between two phases, usually liquid and gaseous.


All matter on earth exists in any of the three states: solid, liquid or gaseous. ‘Gas’ refers to a substance in the gaseous state. Gases do not have either shape or volume. However, the term ‘vapor’ or ‘vapour’ refers to a substance in equilibrium between two phases, usually liquid and gaseous. Vapor is not a state of matter but is a specific type of gas.

Gases are in a gaseous state at room temperature. The molecules in a gas can expand to occupy any available volume as there is very little inter molecular attraction. On the other hand, the molecules of a vapor gain energy and vaporize from a substance which is either a solid or liquid at room temperature. For example, steam is a water vapor that turns into water at room temperature. Oxygen, which is a gas, will still be a gas at room temperature.

Gas is a state of matter. Vapor is not, it is constantly in transition. The substance is constantly shifting between a gaseous state and its normal state at the given temperature. This happens as the current temperature is lower than the critical temperature, the boiling point at which the substance converts into a gas. At the boiling point, the substance completely turns into a gas, after which it is extremely hard to get the gas to return to a liquid state. One needs high tech equipment to apply pressure to a gas in order to turn it back into liquid. Whereas, vapor readily turns back into a liquid as soon as it touches a surface or cools down.

LINK....http://www.differencebetween.info/difference-between-gas-and-vapor

AboveAlpha

 

3.2 Vapor-liquid-solid phase equilibrium
Often we find that different phases of pure substances can exist in equilibrium with one
another. Let us consider an important gedankenexperiment (Latin-German for “thought
experiment&#8221 in which we boil water. Ordinary water boiling is shown in Fig. 3.1. However,
this ordinary experiment has constraints which are too loose. Most importantly, the mass
of water leaks into the atmosphere; thus, the water vapor and the air become a mixture and
no longer a pure substance.

http://ocw.nd.edu/aerospace-and-mechanical-engineering/thermodynamics/lectures/Chapter 3.pdf

AboveAlpha

 

Hydrogen - gas


Oxygen - gas



H2O - solid - liquid - gas

 

You know....I CANNOT BELIEVE YOU ACTUALLY POSTED THIS!!!

I am LAUGHING SO HARD I AM HAVING A HARD TIME TYPING!!!! LOL!!!!

No!!! NO!!!!! LOL!!!!! HA!!!!

H2O is a MOLECULE....and the ONLY WAY to change a Molecule of H2O into Hydrogen and Oxygen Gases is to either RUN AN ELECTRIC CHARGE THROUGH IT...or....IRRADIATE IT WITH UV-Light or other Solar or Cosmic Radiation!!!

When you BOIL WATER...it DOES NOT SPLIT WATER OR H2O into Oxygen and Hydrogen Gases!!! OMG!!!

When water EVAPORATES....IT DOES NOT SPLIT INTO OXYGEN AND HYDROGEN GASES!!!!!

I CANNOT BELIEVE....no...I won't say it or call you a name!!!

I will let the ENTIRE MEMBERSHIP DO THAT!!!!

AboveAlpha

 

Guess who "the ENTIRE MEMBERSHIP" is already laughing at.

Here's a clue, he uses capital letters a lot.

 

Come on! Your joking right?

You don't actually BELIEVE that just by boiling water you are separating H2O into Hydrogen and Oxygen gases?

AboveAlpha

 

My joking is what?
Or did you mean to write you're joking, as in you are?

You're right, I don't and never suggested that, you did.

 

Let me explain something....

The third state of water is the gaseous state (water vapor). In this state, water molecules move very rapidly and are not bound together but they can only exist this way when mixed within the various gases that make up AIR. As example you have a Tea Kettle...now if you were to fill 50% of the kettle with liquid water and put it on the stove and bring it to a boil.


Although we cannot see water in its gaseous state, we can feel it in the air on a hot, humid day. Commonly, water boils at a temperature of 100°C or 212°F, forming water vapor. Many people believe that the visible plume of steam from a boiling kettle is water vapor. However, the steam that you see consists of very small water droplets suspended in the air.

Now say you have a bowl of liquid water and you place it in a adjustable atmospheric pressure chamber and as we drop the dry air pressure in the chamber the water in the bowl will begin to evaporate....but here is the thing....when Liquid Water Evaporates like this and the dryer the air and lower the atmospheric pressure the QUICKER the evaporation into INVISIBLE Water vapor or aqueous vapor....it is only capable of doing this BECAUSE AIR IS PRESENT and air is comprised of oxygen and nitrogen and CO2 and CH4...etc....as without these Gases Water or H2O COULD NOT EVAPORATE INTO WATER VAPOR.

In fact even though STEAM is visible and contains small droplets of water that are suspended in Air and these droplets are large enough for the Human Eyes to see....Steam has very little difference in common with Non-Visible Water VAPOR as the ONLY difference between the two is the total number of bonded H2O Molecules.

The ONLY difference between a person seeing steam or fog compared to Invisible Water Vapor is the number of individual H2O Molecules bonded together in each specific grouping as in fog or steam the number of H2O Molecules is great and exists as a tiny liquid water droplet....where as in Water Evaporation and Invisible Water Vapor the numbers of bonded H2O Molecules is much less in number but STILL....since these bonded H2O Molecules DO NOT EXIST AS SINGLE INDIVIDUAL WATER MOLECULES AS IN Carbon Dioxide Gas or Methane Gas....etc.

THIS is WHY it is called WATER VAPOR or AQUEOUS VAPOR and NOT CALLED H2O GAS!!!!!!!

Because no matter if it is a Visible FOG or STEAM or an INVISIBLE EVAPORATE VAPOR.....it is STILL.......A MIXTURE OF LIQUID WATER MOLECULES AND ALL THE GASES THAT COMPRISE AIR!!!!

And as a AQUEOUS VAPOR....you cannot get a tank of H2O GAS.

But you CAN get a tank of CO2, CH4, Nitrogen, Helium , Hydrogen, Oxygen GASES....as these are GASES....they are NOT AQUEOUS VAPORS!!!

AboveAlpha

 

Exactly.

That was enough, you had no need to go further.

When your hole is too deep, stop digging.

 

There is nothing in this article that backs up your claim of how water would behave in vacuum chamber. In fact you should go back and re-read this article as it only confirms what everyone has been telling you here.. namely there is such a thing as gaseous water (aka water vapor) and it is not liquid droplets suspended in air, which is technically an aerosol.

If you were to apply sufficient vacuum to liquid water at room temperature in a vacuum chamber, the liquid water would boil, that is... change phase to a gas, until the vapor pressure of the resultant water gas reaches a point of equilibrium with the remaining liquid. For this to happen, the water vapor gas has to fill the vacuum chamber. There are many videos on Youtube where you can see this happen with your own eyes.

 

True. The steam you see is an aerosol which is, as you say, small droplets of liquid water. What you don't see is the gaseous water vapor.

See my previous post. If no air (i.e. no pressure) was present, the liquid would boil off into water vapor gas until it reaches equilibrium.

No... steam and fog are still liquid but are in suspension with air. Water vapor is a true gas and is completely miscible with the rest of the gases in our atmosphere. Our atmosphere is a solution of nitrogen, oxygen, water vapor and other gases.

You can't get a tank of gaseous iron either. That doesn't mean there isn't such a thing as gaseous iron.