GOP Rep. Boebert: ‘I’m tired of this separation of church and state junk’

She is correct. It's a letter...cherry picked text and taken out of context. The Bill of rights is exceptionally easy to understand as it is.

 

His words were twisted. He's writing to baptists and telling them not to worry about being prosecuted for their beliefs. He made it very clear in the constitution itself what the bill of rights mean. . People use a personal letter..take his words out of context...and repeat a falsehood over and over in hopes it sticks.

 

At this rate, it's almost harder to believe that she won't be!

 

They weren't twisted. It's clear and consice. There should be a wall between government and religion. James Madison who was Jefferson's mentee opposed prayers during Congressional sessions.

It's amazing how people are trying undermine the actual intent of someone who wrote the constitution and overrule his own writings.

But thankfully we have SCOTUS who has no problem overruling established precedent and inserting their own interpretations.

 

It doesn't matter what Madison's personal feelings were....they prayed during congressional sessions because it's CONSTITUTIONAL. What is concise and clear is the actual wording in the constitution its self.

 

Who cares if they prayed during congressional sessions .. so long as their prayers were not involved in any way shape or form - in making Law. The line between Theocracy and Secularism not fuzzy .. "No Law on the basis of Religious Belief" be it Masison or Thomas .. Adams and and so on

Congress should not establish a religion, and enforce the legal observation of it by law, nor compel men to worship God in any Manner contrary to their conscience.-- James Madison, explaining to Congress during the House Debate what the First Amendment means to him, 1 Annals of Congress 730 (August 15, 1789), That his conception of "establishment" was quite broad is revealed in his veto as President in 1811 of a bill which in granting land reserved a parcel for a Baptist Church in Salem, Mississippi (directly above this entry)

The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
-- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-82

Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one-half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.
-- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-82

Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind.
-- John Adams, "A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America" (1787-88 ) , from Adrienne Koch, ed, The American Enlightenment: The Shaping of the American Experiment and a Free Society (1965) p. 258

As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?-- John Adams, letter to FA Van der Kamp, December 27, 1816

When philosophic reason is clear and certain by intuition or necessary induction, no subsequent revelation supported by prophecies or miracles can supersede it.-- John Adams, from Rufus K Noyes, Views of Religion, quoted from from James A Haught, ed, 2000 Years of Disbelief

 

It does matter. He wrote the constitution. Jefferson affirmed his interpretation of the 1st amendment. Never has the church directed the government precisely because there has always been an assumed wall.

 

https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/885/establishment-clause-separation-of-church-and-state

 

Probably in a stain on the floor under the oval office desk....

 

Wtf are you talking about? You do realize MULTIPLE states had State religions AFTER the constitution was ratified right?

You realize God was an INTEGRAL part of schooling during that period.

So let’s see how consistent you are.

Given your understanding and basis upon how they ran the country immediately after the constitution was ratified… then we should be allowed to have God in schools right? We should be allowed State religions right?

 

See what y’all fail to recognize is that you think Jefferson INTENDED to put Government in the place of congress. Because putting government in the place of congress in the “separation of church and state” clause would make the argument you’re making.

But he didn’t. Did Jefferson make a mistake and put CONGRESS when what he really meant was government? I don’t think Jefferson was that stupid. Do you?

 

Btw I’d love to see Jefferson attempt to make the argument he made in the Declaration of Independence without God.

 

Its typical when a politician makes a brainless comment like this only to be followed by party apologists defend it to their last breaths.

 

As I said before, stated or written beliefs, even if by top learned people, are not the Constitution. I go back to my earlier assertion that, despite what Jefferson or Williams or anyone else says, the Constitution says absolutely nothing about a separation between church and state.

 

So, you want the Constitution of the United States to be interpreted on the basis of ASSUMPTIONS? Or perhaps you think that we should take excerpts from personal correspondence and letters to be more definitive than what is actually WRITTEN into the Constitution?

Look -- very few Americans in Jefferson's day or in ours today would ever tolerate the government of the United States proclaiming any religion to be the official one of the nation! And it was to prevent the possibility of that ever happening that moved Jefferson and the others to write the "establishment" clause -- nothing less, and, nothing more.

Jefferson and the other Founding Fathers knew very well the manipulations and abuses caused by the Church of England, created by English king, Henry VIII -- and they wanted no more of THAT!

 

They didn't want Congress to make any laws regarding religion. Period. They didn't want protestants kicking mud on Catholics, or Jews, Muslims, or vice versa.

 

Why are some on the right so hellbent on pushing christianity on others?

 

He mentions the 1st amendment in the letter, which includes Congress. Thus, he is shedding light on the meaning of the 1st amendment which also includes Congress.

In the letter we have state governments covered, and Congress is covered in the Constitution. Then we have rulings that upheld separation of church and state for 70 years. Conservatives really are hell bent are destroying every single precedent ruling they don't like.

 

Except of course this was all before the 14th amendment which extends the bills of rights to states also. And numerous court cases have upheld this extension. Boebert is not saying to have a state religion. She is saying the church is supposed to direct the government. Having an official religion is different than church directing the state, and I can't recall any states being directed by the church after the constitution was ratified.

 

Do you really not understand, Matt? The overwhelming majority of all Americans, including Christians (like me) do not want ANY religion established as a "national religion"!

There is always a fringe minority of zealots who want to stuff their version of religion down everyone else's throats... you find them everywhere -- but don't single out any one group of Americans for your accusation.

 

First of all y’all didn’t give a crap about precedent when you overturned precedent and created a right to gay marriage. So please spare us your faux concern over precedent.

Second of all I don’t care what his letter says. I care what the constitution says and the constitution says CONGRESS cannot engage in those actions. Not government. Not government employees. Not government entities. Not entities who take government funding. It EXPLICITLY states Congress.

 

Congress is the government. Boebert says the church should control government (Congress). This is explicitly prohibited.

And righties didn't care about state's rights when they tried to overturn California's laws on net neutrality saying it was a federal issue lmao!!!!

 

I don't think that is what she said at all. Control??? If she did, she is full of beans.

 

No congress is NOT the government. Is Congress the president? Is Congress the Supreme Court? Are the powers delegated to congress in the constitution delegated to every other portion of government?

In fact is there ANY other place in the ENTIRETY of the constitution where it says “Congress” and you define it as the entirety of government?

Y’all had disavowed precedent well before that guy