Graphic video shows Daniel Shaver sobbing and begging officer for his life before 2016 shooting

Most departments use body cams, including this case.

What do you consider stupid laws?

Better training would be great. The problem with that is money. Departments dont have the cash. They also have to lower standards to get enough cops on the road.

There is plenty of accountability. Just because you dont like our judicial system doesnt mean there is no accountability.

 

My unit treated Iraqi civilians with FAR MORE respect than American police treat our own citizens. That is how abysmally low we have sunk as a society.

Between 1776 and 1834, America had no organized police forces. Community security was handled by volunteers and militia. That is what a real republic looks like. Now, we live in a police state where agents of the government act like an occupying force fighting a war against enemy combatants. And to make matters worse, this onerous, abusive police state costs taxpayers outrageous sums of money to maintain. We are literally paying out the nose for our own enslavement and many Americans are perfectly fine with this arrangement.

 

Because it is a culture of corruption, abuse, and fear. Even the good cops are powerless to do anything about it.

 

Yes, but only because people have insisted on it. Cops are generally resistant to the idea.

How much time you got?

Mostly, I am opposed to drug prohibition. It is easily the number one pretext for the erosion and violation of our rights by the police state. Not only is it fundamentally incompatible with the concept of individual LIBERTY, it is an extremely expensive and unconstitutional failure that only benefits drug lords and bloated government agencies.

They have plenty of money. They just have too many cops enforcing too many laws. And some of the people training the police in this country are demonstrably incompetent.

No there isn't. Everyone knows about the "thin blue line" and about the culture of corruption within law enforcement.

 

Almost all of them. The legislative for profit gangsters enact thousands of new laws each and every year that seek to criminalize every single American. It's nearly impossible for anyone not to violate at least one of these unconstitutional "laws" daily.

 

What I find so ironic about situations like this is that the same people endlessly complaining about "big government" while celebrating "individual liberty" are the same people defending and apologizing for the big government police state that routinely tramples on the liberties of Americans and costs taxpayers billions of dollars every year.

 

Agreed, it was mostly a rhetorical question.

 

No doubt that we have turned into something akin to a police state, along with a national security state, where the right to privacy is a thing of the past. And we can only expect this to worsen. For seldom do we move back to how we did things in an earlier time, due to a constitution. We only lose rights, and the treatment by our police only worsens. I think before long, if we do not have them now, we will have armed police drones, which will kill citizens from collateral damage, which will be acceptable. That is where we are moving, in this frog boil paradigm. As we will continue a war against the People, commonly called the war on drugs, which has much to do with the taking away of rights, turning our police into a military seen in a banana republic or something like the old USSR. All done in our best interest of course!

We allowed the door to be opened up, with this war on drugs, which has damaged people more than the drugs themselves would have done. And yet in an earlier time, you could walk down to your local general store and buy most of these illegal drugs today, in elixors, such as cocaine and heroin. And did american society implode? When people had the right to ingest anything they wanted, for we saw them as free adults, and old enough to make their own choices without being punished by the gov;t for exercising the most basic and fundamental freedom? You should educate people as to what drugs will do if you use them too much, and then leave people the hell alone! Instead of treating them like two year olds, and ruining lives for exericising the most fundamental right of them own, the right for personal sovereignty and the right to own one's own body. For the way it is now, you do not even own your own body! The gov't took that ownership away. For once the most basic freedom is taken away, the other freedoms are at great risk, and we have personally seen this come to pass, most of us, who are older.

The biggest con job ever ran on the People is taking away rights, and justifying it by the idea americans are children and must be looked over by the State. Even to the point of sending you to prison, because you were exercising the most fundamental right people should have. We tried that during the Prohibition, and yet we were smart enough back then to see that it only created more problems, even greater than people drinking booze. We apparently have gone backwards in intelligence, but then what is the use of power, held by our rulers, IF, they do not exercise it as much as they can? There is no difference between Prohibition of booze, and the prohibition of drugs. Both will and did create more problems than they were trying to solve by taking away rights as if we were infants. When your emotions dictate laws, instead of rationality and reason, you always create more problems than you tried to solve by taking away rights.

And in order to police human nature, you end up with cops who act like ours do today, as you try to do the impossible...change human nature. If you want to get rich, all you need to do is to pass a law which negates human nature, and then sit back and watch the money roll in for the State. But as I said, the destructive thing comes in when you have to turn your cops into a force which can catch the people exercising the most basic right man should have.

 

Sometimes, death is a direct result of doing something stupid.

 

The only thing we know is on a 1 minute video

The jury had much more information to go by

 

Like?

 

Laws against murder, assault, rape, theft, property damage, trespassing, fraud, imminently dangerous actions, like going 100 MPH through a neighborhood. These are legitimate. Pretty much everything else is not.

 

Some are, some arent. 2 cops I know love them. Its drastically dropped the number of bogus excessive force claims.

I am in favor of all beat cops having body cams on from the start until the end of shift that cannot be turned off.

Have you noticed the opioid epidemic? Thats just a small sample of what it looks like if all drugs are legal. Now, if you want to talk about decriminalization for use of illegal drugs we can most likely come to an agreement.

No, they really dont. Thats a large part of the reason that they are lowering standards. They cant increase pay to draw more qualified candidates becayse they dont have the money. They cant send all of these cops to added training because of the cash.

This is legitimate but doesnt really matter with all of the access today. If cops do something wrong, they are outed in the media or by their departments.

 

Congratulations StiNNK, you're a bona fide Winner !
- you just won the exclusive rights to your overused adjective

 

So everything thats currently illegal. You arent really saying anything though. You havent named a single thing thats currently illegal that you think shouldnt be.

 

My point is that anyone who aggressively resists arrest or attacks a police officer--- and gets shot or beaten or killed as a result gets no sympathy from me.

It appears you really only care about violent and crazed suspects more than you do the cops that often have to make split second decisions to shoot or not.

The cop in my second video was holding a one shot taser on a violent predator, and he got shot 4 times in an instant. So using "correct" force can get a cop killed very easily.

 

That's usually how it goes. Good cops favor them and bad cops do not.

Have you noticed that alcohol is perfectly legal and causes far more death and disease than all illegal drugs combined? Have you noticed that drug prohibition does not actually work and is incredibly expensive and authoritarian?

There are far too many cops as it is, so clearly they have plenty of money. What they need to do is fire all the incompetents and use the savings to increase the pay of the good ones who are actually qualified.

Very rarely are they actually held accountable for their actions. This shooting is a perfect example of that.

 

Except we're not talking about people who "aggressively resist arrest or attack a police officer". Neither are we talking about "violent and crazed suspects". We're talking about a totally innocent person who posed no real danger to the police that was executed because he failed to follow confusing commands in a highly stressful situation.

 

Back during the time of the Founders, someone who was convicted of a home invasion, violent rape, armed robbery, or carriage holdup was flogged, then hanged. Career criminals did not have very long careers back then.

I'm glad we have militarized SWAT teams, with legions of hyper-violent criminals. And with the Black Panther shooter in Dallas, or the San Bernardino Islamic killers---would you imagine that regular citizens would have the will or ability to take out such modern threats as a coordinated team that is always on standby?

 

Actually, I did when I named drug prohibition.

Anyway, here is a list of the laws that exist just in the state of Illinois:

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs.asp

That does not include the laws that exist at the county and municipal levels.

There are literally thousands of laws and even more administrative regulations with the force of law on the books. It is impossible to know and understand them all. An attorney wrote a book called "Three Felonies a Day" describing the Byzantine legal system and how every America commits three felonies a day on average without even knowing it. Here is an article discussing the book:

http://reason.com/archives/2009/10/19/were-all-felons-now

And here is the author of the book giving a presentation:



You're basically asking me to summarize years of legal theory and information into one thread on the internet. I cannot do that. You just have to research the issue yourself.

 

So the cop was psychic with x-ray vision? He must have had these to "know" that the suspect was harmless, and that he could not have had a gun hidden away under his belt.

yeah, right

 

Your point being?

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither...
--Ben Franklin

 

I expect police officers to use deadly force only after positively identifying a genuine threat. It's the exact same standard I was expected to adhere to in an actual war zone. It never got in the way of my safety or the mission. Stop making excuses for murderous cowards.

 

Does that mean you don't have anything more to say about the subject at hand? You now want to discuss your personal feelings regarding me?

 

Over 90% of them, you really need a list?