Isn't it a true shame "bankers", International bankers can mess with people as being done to Greece now and so many other nations in the last ten years. Such as Morsi's Egypt.
Well they were apart of a monetary system. The system chose to destroy them through austerity. Makes no sense if you ask me. Austerity looks horrific! An economy destroyer!
There was no "austerity". Greece is simply returning to its historical averages of spending even though that was obviously too much spending. Only the most deluded "experts" and "economists" can blame minuscule reductions in spending for the problems that Greece is experiencing, especially when their problems were preceded by years of excessive spending and borrowing. MOD EDIT>>>RULE 3<<<
I also have a problem with these claims of 'austerity'. What did they spend before austerity ans since...over time. Spending over time is the key, not claims of distress. The claim sounds like the left in my country when they claim draconian cuts to their programs when all that happened is a slowing of the rate of increased spending. The 'cut' was the difference between what they wanted and what they got, not the difference between last years budget and the next.
What was 'austere'? Show me the actual spending totals from year to year. I suspect the biggest issue was the reduction of new cash coming in from the outside, something Greece seems to think is a entitlement.
Yea, definitely no austerity in greece. Lmao!!!! Austrians are willing to make up anything to protect their silly ideology.
This chart of actual spending broken out twice a year seems to reflect a minor cut to government spending... It looks like they spent about 22 billion in 2013 and 21.2 billion in 2014 with 11 billion so far in 2015...A cut but so minor as to not in any way reflect draconian cuts as claimed by the Government. If my math is right, that is a cut of under 4%...trivial
I didn't slice and dice anything. I found what seems to be the only chart out there that reflects actual spending in recent years. The rest seem to be comparisons to Budgets proposed, but never actually lived by, spending to GDP, etc. The only way to really see if actual cuts have occurred is to see what they actually spend from one year to the next and using that criteria, the awful, horrible, draconian cuts in 'austerity' amounted to a bit less than 3%....political austerity. Now, at this moment, with the cash cow of new loans not happening, real spending might drop but so far it has not...
Unless you want to define "austerity" as spending the same amount as you did a few years back, then it's obvious to anyone that no such "austerity" has taken place. Returning spending to historical averages which were already excessive is pretty much the exact opposite of "austerity".
Your graph starts in 2012. Although it still reflects austerity, it skips the most drastic change in spending happening between 2008-2011.
Then why, if they lived under this 'austere' regime for almost a decade, is the world ending now? Perhaps it is the fact that only two things have changed. revenues from taxes collected has plummeted over the last year as people simply do not pay, and NEW loans have not appeared from outside Greece. In short, they have discovered they cannot make ends meet if they do not collect taxes and no one else simply gives them money. Perhaps they need to collect taxes and make real cuts to spending above and beyond the tiny ones made to date.
It's a process. Things don't change over night. Austerity just slowly crippled them to the point where they are now where they are completely destroyed and have no way of getting out without the very thing that they needed in the first place. More money.
This is interesting. It goes back to May and notes even then that the money numbers used by Greece might be a tad off.. http://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors...e-i-would-believe-these-greek-budget-numbers/ It seems in light of today's problems, that rumour was FACT. - - - Updated - - - It seems to me they had almost a decade to turn 'austerity' from a simple word to economic spending less dependent on loans and more based on tax collection, but they didn't. They put all their serious effort into getting more loans.
They are in a monetary system that cripples them. We would have the same problem in ours except we support our less productive states and don't let them fail because that's far worse for the good of the system. And all monetary systems these days are dependent on debt. The reason why you guys have such trouble understanding these things is because of your fear and misunderstanding of debt from the perspective of a country or "system". All the EU countries need debt, some will be more productive than others, so more debt will be required for the less productive countries. If you want a successful system that is. If you want the survival of the fittest, kill off the weakest, type system then this is what you get. Now Greece is in the same situation as they were before they started austerity except they are in a much deeper hole, with a quarter of their human capital not being able to find work. It's an absolute mess. Austerity does this to countries. It always has, always will. We tried this in 1937 during the Great Depression. Luckily we only tried it for a year because it sent us right back in to a mess. Austerity is a destructive force of nature and an intentional destruction of an economy. Greece is a perfect example of what austerity does to an economy.
I am sorry but you read like you are proud of those 'less productive states'. The EU is not an organization designed for the productive to support, forever, those less productive. If they want to work less, then learn to live on less. Greece is a perfect example of what mooching does to an economy over time. Of course they are in a deeper hole. They didn't increase their tax revenues and they continued to borrow to make ends meet. They had the time to reverse course but lacked the will.
I'm not proud of them. But in a system, there will be winners and losers. If you want the system to succeed and be efficient you have to balance that out, otherwise you will get what you have right now in the EU, where it is an absolute disaster. Nothing was solved by letting Greece destroy themselves. The EU is now most likely going to lose all that human capital and resources because they forced them to fail in their very own system. It is much more productive to make sure states like Alabama, Arkansas, etc are producing and working... if that requires more help from the productive states than that is what is needed. My economic theory is about economic efficiency. Survival of the fittest is for animals and unorganized groups. Our monetary systems are set up to be dependent on debt (for very valid reasons). So complaining that a country needs debt is ridiculous. Of course Greece needs to borrow, for money to exist in these systems someone has to be in debt.
That is a false argument, the false either/or argument. Either we let Greece continue to spend far more money than they take in, forever, or we force their nation to fail. It leaves off all the other options like, raising revenue, borrowing less, spending less, being more productive, etc...
The only difference is we just spend the money on the weaker states and don't call it "borrowing". That's what the EU will have to eventually create. A single bonding/taxing agent.
2005 data impressive..... Also The Tax Foundation's annual study that calculate Tax Freedom Days in the United States has been criticized by other think tanks, such as the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities (CBPP)[42] and Citizens for Tax Justice (CTJ),[43] citing repeated "methodological errors" and "reliance on early projections without hard data." CBPP has also criticized other reports by the Tax Foundation,[44][45][46] and in turn the Tax Foundation has responded or criticized CBPP reports.[47][48][49][50][51] The two groups have some areas of agreement, such as opposition to most tax expenditures[52] and sales tax holidays.[53][54] US economist Paul Krugman has characterised the Tax Foundation as "not a reliable source" while criticizing a report by the Tax Foundation comparing corporate tax rates in the United States to those in other countries.[55] Krugman has also accused the Tax Foundation of "deliberate fraud" in connection with a report it issued concerning the American Jobs Act.[56] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Foundation
It was just an example of how we distribute more money to weaker states. Nothing wrong with that, but the actual details of that list are irrelevant to this discussion. Just an example. Something the EU has to do in order to become more efficient.
If you have a point to make i would not use a source that has face so much criticism. That is just me. You should also admit that some states have cities that drag down their numbers but honest debate isnt your strong suit.
