Gun Control Group Sends Useless Gun Locks To NFL Players

I use a shotgun for 3 gun competition, to shoot clays, to shoot upland birds and to shoot waterfowl. Not only is the shotgun the best firearm for these activities, it's the only gun allowed by law for two of them and by rules for the other two. Shotguns were originally designed as fowling pieces, they are the optimal firearm for shooting birds and no "facts" that you believe will change any of that.

 

Shotguns are for many purposes. I use one in 3gun competition. A combination of rifle, shotgun and pistol.
All hunters use them for all waterfowl, ducks, geese, etc. also pheasant, dove, quail, grouse and other birds. Taking these birds by other means is illegal in many states.
Perhaps my favorite is trap or skeet shooting.

 

Jarhead, don't say stupid things like, "Shotguns are for people who can't shoot"---and then try to defend it.

I was in the Army, qualified expert on the M16 and have shot since I was young. So what? Even if you were the Grand Ninja Master of All Weapons your statement is still retarded.

The shotguns in OP are for birds and skeet shooting---that's what is normally used in the sports. If you want shoot them with your rifles then do it. Intelligent sportsmen know when other people are nearby doing that would be dumb and dangerous.

Also, if shotguns are for people who can't shoot, then please tell the Marines and MARSOC to stop using shotguns for breaching and other tactical uses.

 

Still trying to figure out what a "7.55 MM Mousier" is supposed to be.

 

I never claimed to be 6' 4', I am actually 5' 7". I served for 13 years in the Marines. I never claimed to be in the FBI, or live in Cincinnati. If you check the flags on this post you will see the flag of Virginia not Ohio.

BTW, in the Marines everyone has a Marksmanship Badge. We do not call them medals. Medals are something completely different. But there are three types of badges determined by your last trip to the rifle or pistol range. The lowest is a Marksman. Next comes the Sharpshooter, and the highest award is the Expert badge. If someone qualifies Expert more then once, they add a bar to the badge to identify how many times the Marine has qualified Expert. In seven trips to the range, I qualified Expert each time. Thus, I am an Seventh Award Expert. I also fired at the pistol range five times. Again qualified expert every time. Thus a Five Award Expert for the pistol. You might ask why only seven times to the rifle range or five times to the pistol range. I spent very little time in garrison. More then half the time I was deployed when it came time for my annual qualifications, and the year shooting on the Cherry Point shooting team does not count as your annual qualification. I was shooting the M1 in competition.

 

None of which changes the fact that your assessment pertaining to shotguns is factually incorrect. If anything it simply makes you biased in your position, and narrow in your focus.

 

Damn Devil Dog, I hadn't seen a can of worms opened up like this since I questioned the credential of that old fraud Jeff Cooper. Wing shooting, competition shooting and tactical shotgun are three different skill sets. Even with birds, there's loads of difference in shooting with waterfowl using steel shot and classic upland bird shooting. I would state, that the stereotype of very good shotgun shooters not being good rifle shots and visa versa holds true in most cases. Give me a choice of weapons and I'll take a rifle in a heartbeat. However, a tactical shotgun is really a different animal and in close quarters with multiple unarmored opponents there is nothing much better with the caveat that the person using them is trained. Using a tactical shotgun in close is very much like using a carbine, you can and will miss. It will remove heads and limbs with the chances of surviving a full torso hit practically nil. While being formally trained on them, my ideas have changed over the years. I'm very intrigued about some of the small lightweight double tactical shotguns especially in 20 gauge. They're quite short and with a holo sight and strobe light can be particularly deadly at night for home defense.
Here's some more food for thought. Baltimore is the deadliest city per shooting in the nation with some neighborhoods reaching a 50% mortality rate per shooting which considering the easy availability of quality trauma care is impressive. They seem to use shotguns quite a bit and unusually use cut down cruisers which is anathema to current tactical thinking. Even your beloved USMC used them in the Pacific theater where they were highly prized at night.

 

The fact that you believe that a shotgun is anything but a weapon for people that can't shoot simply proves you have never shot a weapon in your life. I have fired shotguns on several occasions. So, if I am biased it is based on experience. Your comments are obviously based on a lack of experience.

 

You can always tell a Marine, but you can't tell him much. How does one hunt waterfowl with a rifle, and why is every single waterfowl hunter incapable of shooting a rifle? I shoot trap and hunt upland birds with a shotgun, and I can shoot 1/2 MOA groups with at least five of the rifles I own.

 

Pistols, rifles or shotguns. They each fill a unique purpose that only each can fill.

 

Shotguns are for people that can't shoot. They have short range, and fire a spread of projectiles that pepper that target. It does not take any skill to hit anything with one. For enclosed engagements my preference is the 45. Believe me, you get shot with one of those, and your not walking away.

Btw, we still use shotguns in the Marines. I always issued them to the Marines that qualified Marksman.

 

Do you really not understand that shotguns have a totally different use model than rifles? If I were to take my AR out to the shotgun course in 3 gun I'd be DQd, every time.

Tell Jerry Miculek he uses a shotgun because he can't shoot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQiIZicrMFg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j22CGzs5Vik

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FbUMqoyjDw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ3XwizTqDw

 

1/2 MOA, at what range, and were you using a scope? If your such a good shot, have you ever tried to shoot a water fowl with a rifle? It is really not that hard. Like any other moving target you just have to shoot at where the target is going to be when the round hits the target. In other words, lead the target. If you can shoot, then you should be able to hit any target with a rifle.

The primary reason that they use a shotgun for skeet shooting is because the round will carry much further. A clay pigeon will not stop a bullet completely. That bullet will carry much further then the pellets of a shotgun. It is not that you couldn't hit the target accurately. It is that they could not get the build a berm high enough to stop the round.

 

That's really not true at all DD. It's the multiple hits that make a shotgun so deadly. Three hits with 00 buck and mortality goes up dramatically and increases with each additional hit. The weapon excels at ranges where pistols drop off and that's at greater than the 10 yard mark all the way to 40 yards. BTW there's precious little difference in stopping ability with 9mm vs 45 HP's using the very best ammo available currently.

 

Personal experience, or the lack thereof, does not undermine the point being factually correct. You have presented no evidence to show that shotguns are for individuals that cannot shoot accurately.

The obvious question of "so what?" applies with regard to the above. What difference does your experience amount to, when your position is factually incorrect?

More accurately it would be attributed to a matter more resembling arrogance rather than ignorance.

Demonstrate how so.

 

Define in round numbers what amounts to short range.

The following video demonstrates that a shotgun, when firing slugs, is capable of reaching and hitting a target one hundred and fifty yards away.

[video=youtube;vaAdM7zVTU4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaAdM7zVTU4[/video]

The following video demonstrates results out to two hundred yards.

[video=youtube;_3rfYnfp-RM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3rfYnfp-RM[/video]

Short range is subjective. Compared to a sniper capable of eliminating a target as far as a mile away, everything would be classified as short range. However this is not an accurate assessment of fact.

Depending on both range and qualify of ammunition, projectile placement is tightly clustered together.

This is nothing more than a statement of blind ignorance.

If you are shot with a twelve gauge, one ounce slug traveling at one thousand six hundred feet per second, you will not be walking away from such either. If you are shot center of mass at even twenty five yards away with a round of buffered buckshot, you will not be walking away.

All of which is irrelevant.

 

the taking of waterfowl with anything other than a shotgun is illegal.

Based on what precisely? What is your experience that allows you to speak as an authority on the matter of skeet shooting?

 

Still trying to figure out what a "7.55 MM Mousier" is supposed to be.

 

Does you hunting license allow you to legally take waterfowl with a rifle?