Gun Control won't stop mass shootings

To go from my bedroom to my kitchen under the sink to grab the extinguisher set it and come back? Yes that takes 15 seconds. I timed it.
I have a number of heirlooms. Things that insurance of millions of dollars could not replace entirely. I take that seriously. I protect that seriously. How seriously do you think I take my life and that of my family?

 

So basically what I've been saying about seeing people as a threat to your security, true or otherwise is correct?

Where did I say that? There's a difference between being smart, and being paranoid. Texas also has laws about where you can buy beer, it doesn't mean anything. It's about how you carry yourself in that situation. If you're being vigilant and you look strong, then people are going to notice that. It may not turn into a gun fight, but people are going to notice how you carry yourself, and thus no fights occur, even if you have a gun. There's no reason to fight someone who is prepared to stand their ground. But it's the fact that you have to be vigilant, the fact that you have to give off an aura of strength that is the underlying issue. You don't feel safe in your society.

 

Criminals. You know, those guys that get up in the morning knowing exactly what they are going to do that day. If you don't think they are a threat then that is your prerogative. You can just puff up your chest so they will go away. LOL

 

Yeah, and? What is your point? What are the chances of that happening?

- - - Updated - - -

Then why not let society take care of you? Why not rely upon your neighbors to help you ensure your safety?

- - - Updated - - -

Alright. Then that's your security. That makes sense for you.

 

A pirate dressed like Captain Hook saying he wants Peter Pan is a threat. Not much of one, but still a threat. Same thing with criminals. You're going to know the criminal if he invades your home. People don't go through homes randomly unless they know something is there.

 

So now you speak for criminals? Homes are burglarized in some pretty crappy neighborhoods. They don't have much of value. People do all kinds of crimes for all kinds of reasons.

A criminal knows exactly what's in my house. He sees a nice house with 4 cars in the driveway. We have $10k in musical instruments, video games, computers, TVs, etc.... It doesn't matter what someone is after in my house, he will find my pitbull and then he will find a guy with a gun while my wife calls 911. My kids are on the other end of the house and I am not waiting for the bad guy to find them. You do what you want.

 

Because they are categorically incapable

 

You mistake vigilance for fear. I buy insurance, hoping I never need to use it.

I feel very safe in "my society". I've served my country well in the military. I've worked in 32 states without being robbed or attacked. I've worked unarmed in some of the worst neighborhoods in the US. I know my neighbors and we watch out for each other. I don't look for trouble and it rarely finds me. Do you take your kids' safety seriously? How you ensure that is up to you, but don't tell me how to take care of my family. I have a very good track record and don't need your fear of inanimate objects. My family and friends love and respect me. (They don't fear me, either.) What else do I need?

 

So you are OK with committing 1/3 of a billion to die or be injured because you hate guns....wow just wow. Your emotionalism is just more outstanding proof your kind don't care about everyday people, just that you don't want anyone to have a gun. I assume because others have been victimized I might be....if it doesn't then nothing happens...why do you care? You want me to die so you can feel better about restricting others right to defend themselves...better you to die a victim for your ignorant beliefs than an innocent to die because they had no method to defend themselves eh? It is your emotional baggage of fear in play here...not mine.

Where do you get your stats from? If crime is so low, why would you care about the hundreds of thousands of CCH carriers with weapons?

 

As with many things its all about location.

From the FBI Uniform Crime Reports, in 2012 the national violent crime rate was 386.9 incidents per 100,000 people. Those are violent face-to-face contacts. From that number the probability of having a violent contact is 0.38% in any one year, or if the rate is constant the probability of having a violent contact over 10 years is 3.8%. Over a 60 year period (a lifetime), the chance of a violent encounter is 20.8%.

But thats national, the nation is very large and diverse, and I don't pretend to believe it applies accurately to everyone. Of the people I know, much less than 20% have had a violent encounter.

The biggest cities in the US drive the crime rate. For Detroit, violent crime rate 2,122.9, the probability of having a violent encounter in one year is 2.1%, 10 years its 19.8%, 60 years its 72% (assuming the crime rate stays at that extreme level). If you go down into specific sectors of Detroit, its even worse. Detroit is dangerous, even the police have given up and the Detroit police chief advises people arm themselves.

On the other extreme, Troy (12th largest town in Michigan, not far from Detroit) has a violent crime rate of 73.5, the chance of a violent encounter in 1 year is 0.073%, over a lifetime its 4.3%. Very safe place.


But the FBI UCR is only reported crimes and completed crimes. People have more interactions with criminals than are reflected in the UCR. SItuations in which a person scared away or drove away a criminal are not all reported, and since the criminal did not complete the crime, the criminals intent is not reported. By that I mean that a criminal might have intended to rape a woman, but when confronted the woman pulled out a handgun and scared the criminal away. If the woman reports the crime, its not reported/recorded as a rape or assault but as maybe trepassing or harassment, maybe the incident is just reported as an "incident". Guns are used between 150,000-2,000,000 times a year to thwart criminals.

Then how has the action of carrying a concealed weapon affected you? How do you know that woman even has a gun? She has not broken any laws, in fact people with carry permits are usually the most law abiding segment of the population.

It seems you are upset at the thought of people carrying a gun, not over their actions.

 

Maybe he is one of the criminals. Who else would be afraid of law abiding people carrying concealed guns?

 

1. Common sense dictates this. I'm not going to break into a house, without knowing where things are. And I'm going to see the cars, and maybe some stuff inside the windows. I'm not going to see the guns, I'm not going to see what lies beyond the windows.
2.http://modernsurvivalblog.com/security/21-things-your-burglar-wont-tell-you/

- - - Updated - - -

Really? Society can't take care of you? They do it. A lot more then you realize.

 

Really? Then how about this, you say you live in a safe neighborhood. You trust it there right? So then here's my question, do you lock your door at night?

 

Is this the part of the argument where I say why don't you show me where I have every said I want to ban guns? Because I can tell you right now, I'm pretty sure it's this thread that I said I support the current definition of the second amendment.

1. No.
2. What is my actual argument? It's not banning guns, it's about addressing the reason why we feel like we have to own guns. And as far as I'm concerned, what you just posted proves what I've been saying all along. We live in a climate of fear, and guns represent the security we need to have to protect ourselves.

The FBI.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...-in-the-u.s.-2011/violent-crime/violent-crime

 

It's called crime. It happens you know.

 

I live in as safe a neighborhood as I am willing and able to afford. I trust my friends and most of my neighbors, but I don't trust the entire population within driving distance of my house. I lock my cars and my house as a deterrent to crime. Locking doors is for my safety and yours. Do you have a reason for asking me this? It's common sense to lock your car and house at night. I wouldn't fault anybody for taking any precaution they wish, especially if it doesn't cost me anything. I don't carry large amounts of cash. I don't argue with people on the freeway. I don't let my wife go to the store alone at night when possible. I don't let my 12 year old run the neighborhood after dark because of wild animals. (I live outside of the city limits and coyotes, wolves, bobcats, and sometimes mountain lions are spotted.) I very rarely drink. Other than minor speeding,(less than 10mph over the limit) I don't intentionally break the law. I am blessed with a good job and a beautiful family. I don't take chances with them.

By the way, this is where I live.

 

First rule of debating, include a link when sourcing something. It's just polite. Now you provided me with a general overview, you talked about Detroit. What does that matter? It doesn't. What's it for your area? And more importantly, how do you know this? Did you look it up or did you have a rough idea before I asked you??

Now as for the number of times that guns are used, two things. One, a source, two, what does that matter? If you factor in all the crimes, the number of crimes stopped by a gun, is a grain of sand on a beach. Also, you're more likely to die from being injured by a gun on accident, then from getting in a crime involving a gun.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm

1. When a person has a secret weapon, they act differently from someone who doesn't. You don't need to know what it is, chances are though, it's a gun. And do you understand what I'm arguing? Guns are simply a means to an end, I'm arguing on the notion of fear of in US manifesting itself in the need for more security. Your posts, the arguments from other people are proving my point.

 

Nice house, I like the tree line in the back. But I digress.

Now you lock your house, car,etc. Without looking it up, tell me what is the home invasion rate for your area. How many robberies occur in your area? From your photo there's a house with two trees in front of it. Who lives in the house, and without asking, what are there favorite colors? Pick five neighbors, what are their favorite colors?

 

You're just saying that because of my spurs and trench coat with my Texas swagger and the gun rack in the back window of my pickup. Dude. It's not polite to pass gas in public like that. It's obvious where that quote came from. How can you make assumptions like that with no stats and NO experience in the matter? Do you even own a gun? You are afraid of something because you have no experience with it. (I assume that from your attitude, your age, and your occupation in your profile.) I suggest you get some professional instruction and go to a range that rents guns.(With your parents' blessing, of course.) Introductory classes are pretty reasonable. Gun ranges keep the prices down to attract new business. You might learn something and you might actually like it. At least it will give you a more educated opinion on the matter.

Your stats about guns preventing crimes are incomplete. Many prevented crimes are never reported and many reported attempted crimes are not recorded for law enforcement crime data purposes. It's like trying to prove a negative. We'll never have a complete picture of guns stopping crimes. All I know is crime went down in TX after the CHL law was passed in 1996. This is in spite of the flood of illegals and refugees from hurricanes that have poured into the area in recent years.

 

His name is Mark. He is a widower and his daughters have grown and moved out. He has an IT job. He has a fawn boxer. I don't care what color he likes or if he likes long walks on the beach. I'm a guy. I talk to my neighbors about what they do for a living, or seek advice on home or car maintenance. We play cards or dominoes sometimes. We shoot fireworks together on Independence Day every year in our cul-de-sac. Our kids ride go-carts and 4-wheelers around the neighborhood. My 12 year old practices his saxophone with the kid across the street. We walk our dogs and complain about taxes. About half of our neighborhood has an app called Nextdoor. It's kind of like a localized FB. We post when a crime happens, someone loses a dog, or we want to have a neighborhood block party once or twice/year. We are all busy, but we have each other's numbers and watch out for each other. It's what you do in a nice neighborhood.

 

So let me get this straight, you trust your neighbors, but you can't even tell me what their favorite colors are? You don't feel safe with your neighbors. You tolerate them because it appears that they won't harm you. There's a trust in that relationship, but it's a weak one.

 

Oh just so you know, the far right button, looks like a text box is how you do the quotes. Highlight what you want in quotes, click the quote button and it automatically sets up the quote so it appears it's in a box. FYI, if you do that, make sure that you don't end up double quoting because that makes it hard to read.

Dude, I don't care where you're from, what your background is, all I care about is how you treat me in a debate.

I'm not following, what are you saying I'm assuming? The way someone acts or why gun violence in this country occurs?

Do nerf guns count?

Well you're right on my age. I just graduated high school. As for no experience, wrong. Do not go assuming things based upon my age. I have spent my time winning debates against fools who use my age only as an excuse when they have nothing left to argue. If you think I have more to learn, tell me your experiences with guns. You're going to prove me right.

Oh please everyone's is. There's not much data collection about this since congress forbade I want to say the AFT from investigating gun violence in this country.

Source for the second part of the claim and so what? You don't know how many unreported crimes their are. That number could be 0. Is it? I doubt it, but we don't care about that? Why? Because it doesn't have as large as an effect as something on the 6 o clock news. Unreported crimes don't get coverage, reported ones do. Those are the ones that affect public opinion, not one or two unconfirmed crimes.

And that could have been from any number of reasons. Rarely, if ever a society improves itself by passing one law.

 

What's the purpose of 20 questions? I don't even know what MY favorite colors are on any given day. Do you watch Sesame Street? I don't live in a commune. If my neighbor accidentally leaves his garage door open at night, I let him know and he thanks me. Every once in a while, thieves come into the neighborhood at night. Things get stolen. We are not immune to crime. We lock our doors and have our dogs, guns, alarm systems, and such as a deterrent. It's not a guarantee that crime won't happen, but it helps.

I'm happy you live in a place with no locks on doors and you know all your neighbor's favorite colors and nobody needs guns for protection. I guess unicorns and fairy dust keep out all of the bad people.

 

And when someone is directly opposing you? When you are robbed assaulted raped or murdered? Cops are at best a minute away (and thats FAST and assuming a phone call is immediately placed. ) the danger of death is mere seconds. The person whose primary responsibility it is to defend me is me. Society can pitch in and has other duties like enforcing get rule of law etc. But I am primarily responsible for myself, not society.

 

And your gun may be more than seconds away - do you carry it everywhere?