Ive shot thousands upon thousands of rounds and rarely do I ever have malfunctions with center-fire rounds. As you said they are "occasional" and I would go as far to saying that malfunctions are RARE when it comes to modern semi-autos shooting good ammo, and self defense ammo is just that. And any malfunction is easily fixed with simply changing the mag. I could teach anyone a Phase 2 in about 2 minutes. I like my chances with a semi auto over a revolver in every circumstance imaginable. How much stress are you going to be under when you have to reload a revolver in the middle of a gunfight? You get 6 or 7 shots and youre done. You just said failures are rare....then why not give yourself the superior weapon in the first place? I dont see any advantage to giving anyone fewer rounds. Id rather have someone have 15 rounds and not need them than have 6 rounds and need 7. When is the last time someone was in a gunfight and said "I wish I didnt bring all these bullets!". A new shooter would benefit from more ammo capacity than a veteran shooter would....hands down. A rimfire for self defense? No way. Its not powerful enough for defense and rimfire ammo is not reliable...at all. Keep that crap for shoot squirrels and pop cans. Again...what is the advantage of a .38 with 6 rounds over a 9mm semi-auto with 15 rounds? That just boggles my mind....
First, as a shooter, you know that FBI stats show more people are killed with .22 than any other caliber. Also, a .22 Mag rimfire still has a MV of 2,000 fps. I wouldn't want to be hit with one. Second, I wasn't referring to a firefight with a revolver but a home defense situation for a new shooter with limited experience, maybe no shots fired. That is always a high stress situation for anyone, less so for combat veterans. I carry both at different times, but I've trained extensively with both tools. I have had mags drop out under stress reload, a squib round, dozens of stovepipes, double feed, etc, etc. and that is with Hi-Power and a Springfield 1911A1. So it does happen, and you know Murphy's Law.
If you're primarily concerned with home defense, consider a .38 revolver loaded with snake shot. Less chance of penetrating a wall and into the neighbor's house, and you also may not have time to get a perfect sight picture. As for the .380, I load with Silvertip ammo. Much better expansion after contact than copper jacket. Whichever you decide, please become comfortable with it and practice as much as you can. Enjoy!
That is a myth. The FBI keeps no such statistic. And there is a difference between killing and stopping a threat. It doesnt do you much good if you shoot someone and they bleed out 4 hours after they strangled you to death. Its a hole poker, and I wouldnt want to be hit by one either, but if someone breaks into your house high on meth are you trusting your life to a rimfire 22 round? Im not. That is why its a bad, almost laughable, caliber to advise someone to use in a defense application. Yes, it would be stressful, that is why I would rather start out with 15 rounds than 6 and take my chances that those 15 rounds are part of the 999 out of 1000 rounds that wont malfunction. A Glock 19 is a vastly superior fighting weapon compared to both of those handguns.
You may be right, that may be an urban myth. But the fact remains that a .22 caliber Magnum is not as anemic as many think. A lot of people swear by their combat Tupperware. They are better than nothing. I'm old school, and like my 1911 MilSpec and my snubby, (which I can reload almost a quickly as I can the 1911). I am considering upgrading from a J Frame to a K Frame.
NO NO NO. The FBI itself has said that you need at least 12" of penetration into ballistic gel. Human skin is equal to about 3" of penetration. Snake shot penetrates all of 4" into ballistic gel. Anyone that takes this advice deserves the consequences after 6, 1" deep penetration into their target and them bring in pain and pissed off you shot them. Use JHP, get that 12" of penetration, and be well.
There are some determining factors. Point of impact; number of rounds, etc. I've seen some pretty bad wounds with this stuff. Enjoy!
If I can hit with a pistol, I can hit it with a shotgun. Slug, 00. slug, 00 slug............ I have the time to bring that weapon to bear in my house. If the dogs are on ya like hell, I know I have a couple of extra minutes.
Event stopping hits are different than vicious looking wound hits. This is a vicious looking wound. Look at how he is still standing. And so is this: And this And this Note that all of these were done with proper shot guns, not a .38 revolver. Also note that all of these people lived. It will cause horrific wounds, but more likely they will live, and they will be pissed that you had shot them. Penetration is the key.
And it changed the very next session, you stated it as if it were still fact, I corrected you. Time to move on! Right, your true colors....got you! nuff said!
Birdshot is snake shot magnum. Snake shot and bird shot is for their respective animal types. JHP, soft points, ir even FMJ for hunting two legged predators.
Almost all home invasions and thugs on the street are cowardly punks who will run at the first sign of an armed potential victim, the rest, the braver ones will run and hide when they hear the first shot. It is amazing how loud a 410 shotgun blast with birdshot sounds inside a home, and the pellets won't go through the walls and pepper your kids or neighbors. Also, if you want to carry a "25 round clip of .49 caliber automatic handgun weapon loaded with Dirty Harry Body Piercing Sabot Round Mankiller loads", [sic] the prosecutor will love telling all that information to an ill informed jury of sheep. FWIW
And so, Ms. really?, you see how these discussions go. That's why I hope you can fall in with the shooting crowd where you live, and get familiar with things that make sense. Once you've decided on the gun, it's pretty enlightening to spend some time with a bit of your own testing. When I do that, I like to use either phone books or news print, since it's about as close to ballistic gelatin as the average guy can get. Use one of those smallish plastic bins to thoroughly soak whatever you're using and to haul it off to where you're gonna' shoot. Once you're there, and at the place where you want the target to be, use twine or wire or whatever to bundle the parts together into something about a foot thick. I say bundle them at that point, because once they're together, it's too heavy to carry around. This is good for comparing whatever ammo you intend to carry, to see which penetrates deepest, expands most, and keeps from shedding the jacket. Once you dig the bullets out, they're very cool to have! When I worked in a shop with my own tools, I made up a little sign with one of my recovered bullets. the sign said: "This is the only thing I ever got back from a thief". They left my tools alone.
Point taken and reinforced. Lowest I would go for human defense would be #4 buck, but 00 buck would be best.
Nice post, Regular, yes, I see how these discussions go and am enjoying the banter. Thanks to all of you! There are a couple of ranges near me to take advantage of, and I will find a local forum. I believe in doing things the right way.
I suggested that you find a savvy bunch to be friends with because there's a WHOLE BUNCH of urban myth floating around. One really bad example is this claim that a prosecutor might describe your gun, or load, or brand of ammo to the jury in an effort to make you look evil. That myth was started by a gun writer who has been followed much too closely by far too many. Huge research was done by a bunch of us to try and find ANY example of there being any truth to that claim. The ONLY example found was one where a guy was wandering around near the Grand Canyon. He was carrying a 10mm auto pistol for self protection against "whatever". He unwittingly came near a camp, where a dog came rushing at him. He shot the dog. The owner sued. The prosecuter tried to impress the court with scary descriptions of the power of the 10mm auto. The court ruled that type of gun, or ammo had no bearing on the fact of the suit. The ONLY time a particular load was discussed in a murder trial involved a case where the husband of the deceased was trying to claim that his wife had killed herself. He had hand loaded her ammo for her, because she didn't want any more recoil in her target shooting than was necessary. The medical examiner found no traces of powder residue near the wound, which indicated that the gun was fired from at least 3 feet away. This ruled out the possibility that she was holding the gun, and the guy was charged with her murder. There has NEVER been a case where the prosecution has been allowed to influence the court by implying intent or premeditation based on the type of gun or load, including hand loaded ammo. Among the people you'll meet, try to find those who help you to strengthen your BS filters.
I will relay your opinion that you call "bull-shuck" on his appearances in court as a paid expert witness for the defense which made such claims. BTW, you characterization of what I stated is inaccurate. I hope your aim is better than that.
I'm not concerned about your opinion of my aim when you assert that there could be such a thing as a "25 round 'clip'". With the exception of "moon clips" for some revolvers, there has never been a handgun made that accepts "clips". This is just all the more reason for really? to get in the mix with people who are actually familiar with firearms.
sic [adverb] \sik\ : intentionally written so - used after a passage to indicate it is intended exactly as typed Usage in this instance is to indicate the absurdity of the passage as written, known by the author to be flawed as written. P.S. I was an assistant instructor for self defensive use of handguns and tactical knives for about 4 years back about 5 years ago. I taught and helped organize security at the church I was attending at the time, so I am not unfamiliar with the terms nor the tactics.
I tire of this exchange. In a previous post, you were defending Mostly Aboob, and in this post you stress that you were indicating the error of a reference. Fawget it. I'm going shooting.
