Gun Violence....what is the problem?

If it seems that way, I will just say, you are incorrect. I did NOT accuse you. Nor would I peg you as particularly right wing.

 

I speak my mind, and if truth be known, radical leftist have controlled the education system for far too long. So if kids are killing kids, your side needs to take a long hard look in the mirror.

I teach my kids the way I was raised. My father always told me, no matter how good you are, there is always someone better. I was a state wrestling champion and had a full ride scholarship to Iowa State. However I decided to join the military, serve my country, and see the world.

If I had went to college, the best I could have hoped for would be the Olympics. UFC was not around back then.

 

Sorry I misunderstood the first post, lack of punctuation, I thought you were accusing me of bullying and that I should die. Misunderstood, we're good. I apologise for what I said as well. Take care.

 

Be sure to let everyone know when a known and confirmed member of the NRA engaged in mass shootings and killings, because it is what the organization advocates and supports.

 

The rise in mass shootings in recent years may have a lot to do with the copycat effect. Someone hears about someone else committing a mass murder and decides that they want to become famous too.

From a letter that was sent to the media last year:

"Dear Members of the Media,

"We are scholars, professors, and law enforcement professionals who have collectively studied mass shooters, school shooters, workplace shooters, active shooters, mass murderers, terrorists, and other perpetrators of crime.

"We strongly urge you to take a principled stand in your future coverage of mass killers that could potentially save lives:
1. Don't name the perpetrator.
2. Don't use photos or likenesses of the perpetrator.
3. Stop using the names, photos, or likenesses of past perpetrators.
4. Report everything else about these crimes in as much detail as desired....

"As scholars, professors, and law enforcement professionals, we do not agree on everything. Some of us believe that by denying mass shooters fame, we would deter some future fame-seekers from attacking. Some of us believe that by no longer creating de facto celebrities out of killers, we would reduce contagion and copycat effects. Some of us believe that by no longer rewarding the deadliest offenders with the most personal attention, we would reduce the competition among them to maximize victim fatalities. However, all of us agree that it is important to stop giving fame-seeking mass shooters the personal attention they want. This sentiment has already been echoed by many members of the United States government, the law enforcement community, and the media itself."
https://www.al.com/opinion/index.ssf/2017/10/dear_media_stop_using_mass_mur.html

The media does not appear to be taking their advice.

 

I'll be damned.... Galileo posted something I agree with wholeheartedly!

 

This is as far as I got into the OP.

Your beginning premise is flawed: More people are not committing gun violence.

If you begin with a flawed premise, the rest of your analysis becomes meaningless.

A better phenomenon to analyze may be why people BELIEVE that more people are committing gun violence, when that is demonstrably not the case. I would venture a guess that MOST people believe that to be the case. Such an analysis would necessarily call into question peoples preferred sources for news and information.

 

I agree with the above 100%. It was being done for a while, maybe 10 years ago, and it seemed to work. Then we had a school shooting during a slow news cycle......

 

You are 100% correct in everything you stated. My goal was to hopefully help some of the factless in this debate learn a problem solving tool to assist them in seeing a clearer picture of the problem, instead of regurgitating the same "NRA has blood on their hands" and "Guns kill people" statements. In order to help them along I posited a position they would take and worked from there.

Unfortunately my attempts have fallen on deaf ears or blind people, because all that is being posted is "NRA has blood on their hands" and "Gun kill people" statements.

 

The media and mega rich are marketing gun violent to everyone to the most extreme levels as never before - foremost marketing violent to kids. This desensitizes and normalized murder. It has only been in the last decade that the level of GRAPHIC violence has been on mainstream TV - and it grows on video games.

For example, in prime time little children can watch "Criminal Minds" and it's graphic portrayal of sadistic sociopathic torture. Shooting video games are now about mass kill. In the past, gun violence/shooting on TV was NEVER realistic, NEVER graphic - nor were video games. None of it was real and everyone knew it. Now the quest is to make it as real, graphic, and horrific as possible in visual and audio reality.

Children grow up taught that sadistic rape, torture and mass murder is normal, common and for mass murder even really fun games to play for thousands of hours - and that it is an normal response to anger and towards adversaries.

Blaming the gun or ease to guy them doesn't work. High capacity firearms have been available - and much easier than now - for over 100 years and in the past this included full automatics without so much as an ID required. It isn't the gun. It is the indoctrination of kids to violence - and this is done by the Hollywood leftwing and super rich corporations.

The media RANTS against the NRA to divert from their own guilt.

 

Very well put !
Never before have I read a better or more accurate statement of facts.

 

Agreed. A well-reasoned, rational statement.

 

That is certainly true for 99.9+% of kids. But what about kids with mental issues, on prescription psych drugs, and/or who have been messed up by being abused as a child himself? How does that disturbed young and undeveloped brain process the constant graphic violence he is surrounded with?

I've often said if you tell a child "you are a rotten bad person" at some point the child may accept and become that self-definition. What should a mentally undeveloped and disturbed teen do once he agrees he is a rotten, bad person? The media, television, movies and video games all answer that is violence - and for some to kill as many people as possible.

The question is not how will well developed, supervised, and "normal" kids are affected and react psychologically.

The other fact NEVER discussed is that overall violent crimes in schools is MUCH higher than in general society - rape, violence, assault with a deadly weapon, terroristic threats and murder - not just mass murders. It also seems that overall in society kids are becoming far more violent. It isn't just about school mass shootings.

 

One out of three mass shootings are copied within less than two weeks. The more people talk about a mass shooting on social media the more likely it is that another mass shooting will soon occur.

"According to the latest FBI analysis, mass shootings in the United States have increased three-fold in just the last fifteen years (Blair & Schweit, 2014)....

"CNN surpassed the 'big three' broadcasters after the Gulf War coverage in 1991, and rang in a new era of hour-by-hour, day after day extravaganza coverage after OJ Simpson’s car chase and trial. Would-be killers got the message that media were very interested in, and would broadcast all aspects of violence, including as many details of killers’ lives, motivations, and methods as possible. In many ways, this need for fame feeds into a narcissistic belief of superiority, and a need to be recognized for it.The common trend now is that [mass] killers send their writings, and photos of themselves and their weapons, directly to news organizations. The news programs gladly splash the writings and photos all over their broadcasts, all the while saying that they do it not to glorify the violence, but because the public has a right to know who did it and why they did it, visa vie their own words and pictures....

"Of the possible causes and solutions, gun control is a media focus in 80% of stories the last 4 years; it was the focus of about 40% of stories in the four years preceding that. In contrast, mental health issues were the focus of about 35% of the stories in the last four years, whereas they were the focus of about 65% of the stories in the four years preceding. Violent media as a cause for the shootings was discussed in less than 2% of the stories across all eight years (p. 156) ....

"Moreover, the rate of mass shootings has escalated to, on average, one every 12.5 days in the United States, and one school shooting happens on average every 31.6 days. The most disturbing finding is that for every three incidents, at least one new incident is guaranteed, or copied, within 13 days....

"When tweets about school shootings went beyond 10 per million, the probability of a school shooting in the next eight days went up to 50%. Nineteen days following the shooting, if tweets went beyond ten per million, the probability of another shooting went to 85%. Finally, if tweets went beyond ten per million in the 35 days following a shooting, it was nearly 100% likely that another shooting occurred."
https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2016/08/media-contagion-effect.pdf

 

I often comment that we almost never see any children or teens playing outside anymore. This area is an outdoors paradise. The region is even called "the natural coast" and "paradise." Fresh or salt water - best fishing in the USA. Hunting? All the hogs you care to shoot. Miles and miles of estuaries, rivers and shell islands. Because of the slow rise of the bottom, the Gulf Water is usually calm and smooth. But the kids? Playing video games. Surfing. Texts. Telling what they had for lunch on FaceBook. Increasingly, their "friends" are just internet friends - which isn't reality, can be brutal and of countless deceptions and betrayals. Most kids and teens do not live in reality. They live in virtual reality. Nor is there any question that the media vastly influences everyone - particularly young people desperate to both be unique and to be accepted at the same time.

Still, laws also may have a little to do with it. A kid can't even operate a 2 horsepower boat motor on his own - has to be 18. A couple of 16 year olds literally can't take out a 14 foot Jon boat in water less than over their head to go fishing. Can't go out shooting with even a single shot rifle until age 18.

Even what constitutes GOOD parenting is defecting parenting. GOOD parenting is NOT driving your kid to the soccer game - that is 10 blocks away. GOOD parenting isn't just buying your kid a $1000 iPhone and $2000 in video games. A GOOD parent makes their kid walk or bicycle to the soccer game. A GOOD parent makes their kid EARN an iPhone and video games - an NOT with token work. Rather "GET A JOB" - part time. If there is none, the pay the kid per-hour for REAL work in the yard and around the home - minimum wage.

Overall, I have often comment that even those who claim to be good parents mostly see their job as to entertain and shelter their kids - doing NOTHING to guide them towards a successful adult life. Most kids are fully unprepared to become adults - why more young adults live with their parents than live with a spouse now. FEAR can create ANGER and HATE. At 17, 18, 19 - a teenage adult doesn't have a clue what to do with their life. By 20 some may decide their life is hopeless, life is fundamentally unfair, and if mental issues are added and the kid indoctrinated with violence and as you note - hardcore porn including abuse porn - tragedies and disasters are going to happen.

Then again I favor how we did it. We were the ultimate helicopter parents. CONSTANT supervision. Friends had to be approved of - and we wanted to meet the parent(s) too. Rare, we would ban any contact with another kid - advising of the consequences (no car, grounded but for school activities) - and so certain this would happen that rule wasn't broke - plus going to the other parents explaining that we had BANNED and contact or communication between them. Didn't care if the other parents agreed or not.

Constantly appraised of where each is at - only by our permission - and each better be where they say because we WILL randomly check. And must be ONLY with who they said they would be with. School work ALWAYS comes first. Extra optional projects MUST be done. We wanted to know EVERYTHING. CHILDREN NEED STRUCTURE! Predictability. Consistency. Child claims teacher is "unfair?" Maybe so. So we would talk thru how to deal with that - tactically and successfully. If the teacher was right? We backed up the teacher.

Details matter. Buying clothing would take hours as it would take agreement - both what the child/teen wanted - and that we approved. And for which occasion? For any significant occasion? Wardrobe worn has to pass our approval. It made a HUGE difference in how they were treated by adults - when adults would make the decision (such as hiring, who got the role, task or assignment etc.) One, dressing as we had taught in clothing we had approved at age 19 in a 10 minute interview got a job for which the minimal stated requirement was an MBA. Took it for a learning experience and to gain the knowledge of the field. By month 4 was offered a 6 figure salary to become a PARTNER - being THE top seller (investment firm). Declined as that not the career goal and now knew enough for life about the world of finances.

LEARN - always learn more! To be successful. To be a winner. To justifiably have self pride - and self confidence. To go into a room with 100 applicants or competitors - and you win. THAT is what parents should be teaching their children - starting at the youngest age. BUT at age 18? They're on their own. The parenting duties and obligations end - both ways. Now they each are fully and equally adults too in our book.

At least 1,000+ times each heard us say "excuses are WORTHLESS" and "self pity has NO value." Forget about fairness too, life isn't fair. Life is a competition. The measure? The measure is within themselves.

Children need their parents TO BE PARENTS - not friends, taxi drivers, their cooks and laundry staff. Wash their own clothes. Cook tonight's meal. Get themselves to where they are going. The MOST common thing of parenting we did - when age appropriate? To point at someone working at a WalMart stocking shelves or a cashier in a C-store or mowing yards on a yard crew or roofing on a roofing crew - and ask "Is THAT what you want to do the rest of your life?" To the "no,"then the follow up was "then you have to learn to avoid that because that is where most people end up." (I could go on for pages).

NO, none of our children had a TV in their room. No, none of our children had a video game in their room - in fact NO video games. One reason they would prefer to be outside and to socialize face to face is because 1.) they had to and 2.) if at the house we'd be parenting them. Yes, each at the around age 12-13 would rebel. But by age 15 they would be seeing the benefits of being SKILLFUL socially, NOT lazy, knowledgeable, having skill sets, and the success and recognition that came with it. And we got better at it with each one ourselves. The last one? Published in scientific journals and lecturing to PhDs at symposiums - while still in high school, winning multiple categories of science fair, often in the local newspaper, offered full scholarships to top private universities, and by 19? Had a job limited to college grads and even MBAs - but then advanced beyond that in under a year. NEVER turned down for any job or assignment, any goal accomplished - many seemingly impossible - just to name a little of it.

One other thing we made clear. At the end of summer the year they graduate from high school, they WILL be leaving home - and we are NOT going to be paying their way. We could, but didn't. To tell in advance we wouldn't bail them out of jail if getting themselves arrested. Won't be fixing their car or paying their rent. To make it clear we WILL shove them out of the nest - whether ready to fly or not - so they better learn how to soar with the best.

Our goal? For them to find their own self and have the greatest knowledge and skillsets in every way to have the greatest possible set of paths to pursue - to succeed beyond us. Our goal was to GUIDE and LEAD - forcibly when necessary - to mature to a self sufficient, successful adult life. The slogan "enjoy life while you are young" is a disaster - because what a person does in their youth, particularly as a teen - will more define the rest of their lives than anything else. Jack off in school, do nothing but have fun thru high school? That person is already crippled when high school ends.

LIFE IS A COMPETITION with others too - we taught that intensely. "100 people want the job you want. How do you get it?" Schools don't teach that. Nor do many parents. We did. Resume of experience and skillsets. High personal and persuasive skilled. High tactical skills in interpersonal relationships. How to dress for the goal. Posture. Again, I could go on - but I agree parents certainly are a huge factor. BUT we can not legislate good parenting.

 

Oh, of guns...

We had all the kids shooting a gun around age 15. Not to make them hunters or marksmen. But to eliminate the mystic and curiosity. Guns are very loud, dangerous tools. Know how to use one. Know how to respect a gun. To educate them about guns - safety, usage, laws. They are not toys. However, of the half that went into the military? All did qualify as "marksmen" - male or female.

 

Kids are too coddled these days too.

Here is an example of how much things have changed. We spoke to a woman in her late 80s who told of her schooling as a child, which we then explored and her story true.

Near here are a group of small shell islands near here. Back then, there were two groups of those islands, one North and one South - each one connected by a single road. The two sides not connected. They could not agree which side would get the school house. So as a compromise, they built the small wooden school house on an island between them - "School House Island" - with no road to it. Nor was it that parents would row their kids to school. Those waters are bull shark and alligator waters and though not deep it is the Gulf Of Mexico and bull shark attacks most often happen in water from around 3 to 6 feet deep - exactly the depth of those waters.

To those who might complain of having a 6 year old rowing a 10 foot wooden boat on the Gulf of Mexico and shark and alligator infested waters all seasons and in all weather? The school board had a statement: "Any child who can not be taught to row a boat by age 6 is a child than can not be educated."

The parents didn't row the children to school. The parents had to work. This was 70-80 years ago. If you were poor and wanted to eat you must take grandpa's old musket or shotgun, that $9.99 surplus Springfield trapdoor 45-70 you bought mail order, or a fishing poll and go get your own food. There were no food stamps. Go get food - or starve.

Now? Most kids will ride a bus rather than walk or ride a bike 8 blocks. It is illegal for even 17 year olds to use a boat with a 3 hp motor. Why hunt or fish for food? People get food stamp cards for meals.

Some kids now complain a lot. That old women? Those school year days were the best days of her life. When asked if she was scared rowing a boat to school? She scoffed, "no, of course not. I enjoyed getting out by myself like that. Would usually catch a couple fish on the way back home." Today? A person had their young child rowing a boat along on the Gulf at age 6, 7, 8? They'd arrest the parent for child abuse and take away custody.

BTW, the woman grew up poor, but she did grow up. She's a millionaire a few times over. Good head on her shoulders. She learned self reliance starting at least by age 6 in a small wooden row boat on a choppy Gulf of Mexico on cold winter rainy and scorning hot summer days in the wood swamp estuaries and shell islands of the then sparcely populated remote natural coast of Florida.

How times have changed for kids - and not for the better in some ways.

 

Overall, I feel the greatest problem is a lack of discipline. A lack of family values and access to violent or sexual media aren't so much the issue, but rather that no one reinforces to these children how to behave in real life. And when these children misbehave, their behaviour isn't corrected. What children are exposed to doesn't help, but in the end it call comes down to a lack of authority. Be it from parents or educators.

 

Geeze. You aren’t following the LW program. Surprised you haven’t been called out for child abuse.

Mom charged after making kids walk more than 3 miles to school in the cold


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/04/0...walk-more-than-3-miles-to-school-in-cold.html
https://www.treehugger.com/culture/...home-ends-jail-child-endangerment-charge.html
http://weartv.com/news/local/mom-arrested-for-making-teen-walk-home-family-wants-charges-lowered

There is case after case illustrating your children belong to the State.

Three fundamental things in decline regarding parenting, first few teach children personal responsibility, few teach children consequenses of their decisions, and more and more parents are detached from their children’s education and lives.

Funny, when people hear about my childhood, being raised in war, having to fight just to get to school, ranging miles on our bikes at age 5 on, working to make money to buy what our parents wouldn’t get us, etc. people recoil and often comment how terrible I had it... I reply, it was normal, I became self reliant, and figure there is no problem I can’t over come...Yep, poor me.

 

I don't have a problem with children belonging to the state. It only depends on the nature of that state. Currently, all governments are becoming as ineffective in raising children as the parents are.

 

Every generation says the younger generation is messed up. To some extent probably accurately. But there is a difference.

People used to be FORCED to grow up - like it or not. Either that or be be homeless out in the cold and hungry. The social safety nets have become so generous as to become a life style - combined with parents enabling their adult children to be bums by covering their ass. Of course, the government is covering the ass of dead beat parents too - and even has a welfare system that rewards broken homes and a woman have each child by a different man, none living at the home. For some - regardless of race - it has evolved to a generation to generation lifestyle. Parents with solid economics tend to coddle their children. Parents of welfare lifestyles tend to figure their kids will do the same and that what makes them have such a lazy lifestyle and career assures they likely equally will be lazy parents. The collapse of the family unit otherwise is much at the core of this as well.

Being hungry and cold is a powerful motivator and for most that motivator is gone. For past generations there was no sense that you are OWED housing, food, a cell phone, TV, free everything. Since this is becoming generational. parents living part or entirely off the government see no reason for their children not to do the same - for which their career becomes living off welfare and whining about how they should receive more for free - with extra money often "earned" by dealing drugs, burglary, begging etc.

In a sense, everyone is weird if you really get to know the person. But that is what makes each of us unique - and uniquely valuable to extent we apply ourselves and our skills, while dealing with our limitations and lack of skills.

I do understand the problems with any censorship. That solely is in the hands of parents and then even that is limited.