Heavy Metal #2

The list I'm refering to actually made the comparisons, erroneously. By their logic, a Mustang is better than a Lamborgini, or a Bud Light is better than a Guinness. Not, very objective.

Myself, and others who have an appreciation for finer things.

I dunno, Sabbath is cool and all, but Vai & Co. are epic.

I can't agree with your opinion on 'composition', I think you've got it backwards. Iommi and other notable metal guitarist have created some catchy stuff, written some good solos, expanded and developed metal styling... but if you want to talk about composition:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Theories_Vol._I_&_II

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concerto_Suite_for_Electric_Guitar_and_Orchestra

 

I agree - it's all pretty aimless widdling. Compare those with this:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geLR_0_mLYM"]Black Sabbath - Warning[/ame]

Or this:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnhY2gyJU7A"]Buck Dharma solo[/ame]

 

The first video is chock full o' aimless widdling. Plus it sounds a lot like Hendrix, a bit like Santana in places too. Not necessarily a bad thing... but I think Dime was probably playing at that level by 15 or so.

And the second video... the guy is better than me, but he's sloppy and everything sounds muddled.

 

"Going classical" is not the same thing as making good compositions. I don't know, maybe the comp on those albums was good, but from a wiki link, the only thing I got is that they did some classical, which really isn't surprising, especially Malmsteen. But as to your Mustang vs Lambo statement, we are talking art, not engineering. Art is highly subjective, but the highest art is that which conveys feeling, and to me, that is Iommi. If you disagree, fine. But most of what makes Dime great is not his similarities to Vai, etc., but to Iommi.

 

Another point about Malmsteen, I have yet to hear a really good song from him. The way he writes music is so cookie cutter, and painfully transparent in the fact that the songs are really just hollow shell vehicles for his solos. Verse, chorus, verse, chorus (!!!SOLO!!!), chorus, end is the template he uses for his songs. Very uninspiring stuff to listen to unless you just want to hear him wank away on the guitar. Very talented guitar player, very mediocre song creator.

 

One other thing about Iommi and composition though. Tony Iommi personally created a major musical genre, one so baddass that 40 years later, people are talking about it in a political forum. Last I checked, none of these other guitar players we discussed ever did that. Matter of fact, not sure why we are even talking about Vai, Malmsteen, etc. when the topic is heavy metal. This is why Iommi exists in his own category. Metal is Tony Iommi's world, we all just live in it. Even Dimebag(who will always be one of greatest). Consider that Pantera only put one cover song on an album their whole career(Planet Caravan) and it was by who? Say it with me - Black Sabbath.

"Your trust is in whiskey and weed and Black Sabbath. It's god(*)(*)(*)(*) electric."-Pantera

 

I wouldn't deny the importance of what Iommi has done. I'm just saying he's not the greatest guitarist. You see the same thing with Hendrix. Yes he's awesome, his work was influential and groundbreaking, but he was not the greatest either.

Yngwie is neo-classical, which is a sub genre, so technically he's a metal guitarist. Vai is more of an instrumentalist these days, but he's typically classified as hard rock/metal, and there is no denying that he's influenced metal with his techniques. So the two of them just came about naturally in a discussion about the quality of guitarist.

They've covered a few other artist.

The Nuge for example:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7ZkGk-x2H0"]Pantera - Cat Scratch Fever Lyrics - YouTube[/ame]

Kiss

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1bFyfM8I6s"]Pantera- Cold Gin - YouTube[/ame]

But to be fair, they did cover other Sabbath stuff.

 

Personally, I think Hendrix is overrated, which is probably what a non metal fan would say about Iommi (art being subjective and all). I don't think Iommi was the "greatest guitarist" either. I just don't think he can be judged in the same way as other guitarists, so when someone says "greater than Iommi", I have to take issue. I usually leave Iommi out of conversations of "greatest guitarist" for that reason - because he is so hard to judge. If you choose to weigh in his contribution to metal, he wins every time. If not, then I admit he could be seen as just another guitar player.

I can accept that. They are great guitarists, and I don't think anyone could seriously deny that.

Yes, they covered these things and probably a whole lot more, as many bands do, but only one song ever made it onto an album was my point. When it was whittled down to one, Sabbath remained. Pantera was one of my favorite bands, and the home videos make you feel like you really know what those guys are like (except Phil). And I can't tell you how much I love Dime. I cried when he died. But please don't say he was better than Iommi, because of the aformentioned reasons. Also, I don't know if I would rate him above Randy Rhoades, either. The other guys you mentioned, sure.

 

It is an awesome song. No denying that.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWChhdIgT6Q&ob=av2e"]Pantera - Planet Caravan (Video) - YouTube[/ame]

Yeah, it always annoyed me that Phil was mysteriously absent from those videos. From interviews, i get the impression that he's a bit of a recluse who maybe takes life too seriously... or something.

 

I found their album 'None So Vile' several years back... I liked that album, but not much else for some reason.

I can dig this though. I like the intro, followed by brutality, then at :52 they unexpectedly drop back into the solo. Nice

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX-LL0JWOyU"]Cryptopsy - Cold Hate, Warm Blood - YouTube[/ame]

 

This isn't bad either:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmGcTp7nplU&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PLB34EBF6D080FC165"]Cryptopsy Silence The Tyrants - YouTube[/ame]
Idolize the compromised lifestyle we
Have depicted for ourselves.
Organized to sanctify the resistance
We're consistently served.

Strive, strive, to rectify.

Throughout the ages we have confined
Ourselves within these brainwashed lies
We've broken, through this severed wound, which has been.

Burnt, burnt, and restructured.

Silence, the tyrants, before they condemn us all.
Silence, the tyrants, in order, to sanctify.
Silence, the tyrants,
I will not, be able to swallow,
Your predetermined guilt.
You seem, so hollow, as your senses begin to slip.
Beaten, and paralyzed, tormented, and left to die.

You've been born into this, so there's no use to resist.
We now have a common goal, which is to unleash your soul.

Each passing hour, allows you to dive deeper.
Your consciousness is fading, as the light begins to regress.

I see, all your efforts, failing.
All your pain, has been endured for nothing.
Beneath your screams you're whimpering.
To be relieved of this burden you are
Wearing, which you are holding.

You've sacrificed for what...

Beaten, and paralyzed, tormented, and left to die.
Beaten, and paralyzed, tormented, and left alone to die.

Silence, the tyrants,
Before they condemn us all.
Silence, the tyrants, in order,
To cleanse, ourselves, from our filthy world.

source: http://www.lyricsondemand.com/c/cryptopsylyrics/silencethetyrantslyrics.html

 

There should have been a "Big 5". Metal Church's debut album actually came out before Megadeth's debut album. Personally, I think it is a better, more consistent album than "Killing is my Business...." and Anthrax's "Fistful of metal". It's as good as "Kill em All" and "Show No Mercy" in my book. Criminally underrated band.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXiG53LBYHw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXiG53LBYHw[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQeMraUw9XA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQeMraUw9XA[/ame]

 

You'll wanna crank this one up
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBamaoS0QhQ"]Fear Factory - Oxidizer [Mechanize - 2009] (With Lyrics / Con letras y Traducción) - YouTube[/ame]
The smallest part a single spark can lay this world in ashes
The fire inside burns my mind set to destroy the masses
Burn this world down
Consuming tide floods my mind filling my soul with rage
Just one spark in my heart to (*)(*)(*)(*) this world in flames
My burning fate seething with hate to set this world on fire
All will burn nothing spared from my incineration Decimate to devastate path of annihilation
My burning fate seething with hate to set this world on fire
Set this world on fire Wake of the Oxidizer

Read more: FEAR FACTORY - OXIDIZER LYRICS http://www.metrolyrics.com/oxidizer-lyrics-fear-factory.html#ixzz1qBoZ8yll
Copied from MetroLyrics.com

 

Interesting mix of black metal and other stuff. I hear some Maiden'ish riffs in here, and a touch of old school Gothenburg melodic death metal.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYL3Q7mOsn4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYL3Q7mOsn4[/ame]

 

Actually, here's a better quality version of the above song

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maoMFl1Rivk"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maoMFl1Rivk[/ame]

 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdp2hEsc2kg&feature=related"]Vivaldi Winter Heavy Metal Version (Dark Moor) - YouTube[/ame]

 

Holy Hell, these guys are awesome!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleshgod_Apocalypse

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjKyzwqIT7s&feature=relmfu"]FLESHGOD APOCALYPSE - The Violation - YouTube[/ame]

 

brewskier, that was friggin awesome..thanks..

lots of good musical tastes here..

 

I think I posted that one in the other thread. Great stuff. It's like a combination of Behemoth and Old Man's Child.

 

Thank you, sir, have another. If you liked that one, you'll probably like this one.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fITAdkWngbo"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fITAdkWngbo[/ame]

 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxQfIvCA0VQ"]Paradise Lost - Lost Paradise / Rotting Misery - YouTube[/ame]

 

I think I've found a new favorite in these guys. Their style is basically a combination of several things I like. Classical strings & synth, aggressive double bass drum, skillful solos, low/heavy rhythm guitar, and interesting composition. Time to start acquiring their albums!

 

Grunge made proper.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG9KqOEHPpI"]Fear Factory - School - YouTube[/ame]

 

Never a big fan of theirs. Too much Korn and other not-so-great influences thrown in (including rap). Their first album wasn't too bad, though. More death metal oriented than their later stuff (still very Korn'ish, though)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fp-UW6VL1es"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fp-UW6VL1es[/ame]

 

One for all the old-school metalheads --

From YouTube -

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmdRiWL6hAg]NoZilla[/ame]