High Court challenge to Carbon Tax

OMG.

That is so funny.

 

From my understanding, the 10% revenue raised from the carbon tax to go to the UN is not voluntary. Apparently its something the UN "demands" from all its vassal members - hence Gillard being seen to have obedience to a foreign power over the obedience to her own country.

We have to remember Gillard TOLD the people of Australia that: "there will be NO carbon tax under a Government I lead" then she introduced one, and that also could been seen as very unconstitutional.

 

So every law that a politician has lied about is unconstitutional now?

 

All that post confirms, is your capacity to be confused,

 

Being in the UN is voluntary, and agreeing to contribute money to a UN fund is also entirely voluntary. It has nothing to do with that section of the constitution, at all. Is complying with our NATO agreements and sending troops to the ME against the Constitution? No. We are giving money to the UN on the basis that it is in the national interest to stop global warming.

No, "election promises" do not feature in the constitution. The office of the PM does not even feature in the constitution. If you wanted to take Gillard to court for "lying" you wouldn't get anywhere. Why? Because there are significant legal differences between a tax and an emissions trading scheme. They are structurally very different, even if they both raise revenue. Might as well call a fishing license a "tax on fishing", or any other such stupid ways in you can apply the very broad term of "tax". Alan Jones might get away with it, but you're having a laugh if you think you could take that argument to court. Be serious.

 

No matter how you defend it sending billions of Australian tax payers monies to overseas institutions to me is traeson when it could be better spent here on hospitals roads and yes cleaning up our pollution.

This whole parliament are a bunch of traitors and those greens are communists.

And what about Bob Brown he wants us to relinquish our soveriengn power to the new world order FFS.

Get these (*)(*)(*)(*)s out of canberra FFS.

 

How could anyone be so dense as to support the huge $ giveaway of the present shower in power? This is such a gobsmackingly stupid move of the part of the Gillard Govt., anyone thus dumb can`t be reasoned with.

 

Exactly - how anyone can support the carbon tax / European ETS really makes me think these individuals are just naïve gullible idiots that haven’t got a clue on what’s happening around the world today.

The first thing that they claim is that the skeptics are conspiracy theorists, next they’ll be saying that this is also a conspiracy theory, well it happened and it’s in the archive of history so there is no conspiracy here just cold hard facts and they just keep on getting repeated at every opportunity.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iW1SHPgUAQ"]The Shock Doctrine 2009 - YouTube[/ame]

Today the supposed free world that promotes democracy and freedom is actually under siege from bankers and corporations who base all their beliefs on the Milton Freidman theory of capitalism which is a distorted view or one man’s view on capitalism.

Milton Freidman theory and effect on capitalism is no different to Karl Marx’s theory and affect on communism both men farked both systems up from their original intention.

In the west today we are not living in a free and democratic society, we are being ruled by corporations and this is not the intent of the founders of capitalism and the original theory of capitalism and free markets.

True capitalism is not in favor of bankers and corporations yielding all the power and running the free markets and even countries that is not the intention of true capitalism.

Utilities such as water, gas and electricity should be owned by governments or if they are privatized there should be a government watch dog to monitor prices accordingly, capitalism is not about selling everything of to private companies especially monopolies such as these.

How can electricity just jump up 10% in price what reason is there for such a hike, yet if workers ask for 2.5% pay rise they get scrutinized and asked to increase productivity and what not etc, just look at third world countries.

If corporations could here in the western world make us work for a bowl of rice they would including child slave labour and all, just look what they’re doing overseas in these countries.

Who the fark are private banks to say that they will not follow the Australian Reserve Banks lead, they should be made to follow it by law, after all our reserve bank sets the interest rate for our country who the fark are these private banks that they will not follow the law of the land.

OR if that’s the case then we should have a government bank like the commonwealth used to be before that traitor Keating sold it off, that way if the Reserve Bank of Australia says there will be a 0.5% interest cut the commonwealth or government bank will pass it on verbatim, then I ask you all who would you bank with?

This forces these parasites to conform to what the Reserve Bank of this country is instating, not this bullsh!t that they can’t afford to pass it on.

This is not capitalism and free markets! This is Freidmanism at work here Milton that is.

The capitalism we have today and the communism Karl Mrx introduced into the system are two sides of the same coin, they are just as bad as each other because they have the same outcome, the top 1% get all the power and wealth.

Today in the west democracy is disappearing and corporatism is taking over, where the 1% will rule the whole world and the rest of us will be reduced to surfs, yes they want to re-introduce feudalism back into the system.

Which brings us back to the carbon tax, this is the first global tax that will be instated for the new world order, and how anyone could possibly think this tax will in anyway really clean up human pollution and the earth just has me dumbfounded.

 

You mean like the ACCC? Also, what is wrong with the mining tax that takes money away from the monopolies of our most profitable industry, mining, and uses it for tax cuts for small business?

How about the fact that we're the fastest growing population in the West and electricity companies are constantly needing to upgrade and expand network infrastructure?

That is why we have the minimum wage, court of arbitration and workers unions. Thanks to the ALP btw.

They are not under any "law" to follow every decision of the reserve bank.

Why don't you just go with a different, smaller bank that more closely follows the reserve's interest rates? They do exist. But our big four banks are pretty good at following the reserve, and they are some of the strongest, safest and best performing banks in the world, so don't get too cynical.

What...? We have the Treasurer attacking 3 of the wealthiest people in Australia because they are mounting huge campaigns against government policies like Carbon pricing and the mining tax. To which he says they're a "threat to democracy", because they try and wrap up their shareholders interest as the national interest. He warns against the growing wealth inequality and corporate lobbying as a threat to capitalism and the free market. A treasurer who also openly condemns banks who do not pass on the reserve's interest rate cuts in full. Seems like you actually agree with him on most issues.

I suggest you actually read his essay: http://www.themonthly.com.au/wayne-swan

Carbon pricing is not a "carbon tax". How to explain... We have fishing licenses right? You have to pay for a license, which means you can catch a certain amount of fish, of a certain size, in certain areas, etc, etc. This is to protect the environment and make sure that we don't over fish and kill the industry. Then the revenue goes to the administration of the regulation, and to environment programs and such to protect the industry.

Rather than just having a "tax" that means, you can catch as many fish as you like, whenever and where ever you like, you just have to pay x amount per fish. Maybe it is progressive, the more you catch the higher the rate of tax. But ultimately, unlimited. Of course at some point the tax rate for catching fish will mean that you won't make any profit from it, at this point a business will stop catching more fish.

But then, what's the point of regulating the fishing industry in Australia, if in Indonesia or Japan they don't co-operate and just kill all the fish anyway? Hence the need for regional and global agreements.

Carbon pricing is regulating carbon emissions using a "permits" system, it's not a "tax". We've deemed that there is an environmental and social cost to emitting carbon, and other greenhouse gases. So now, instead of it being free and unregulated, you must buy a permit to emit carbon. A regulatory body assesses the "cap" on carbon emissions, and permits are assigned to various industries. For three years the price is fixed, after that the price is floating and they'll have to "bid" against other companies for the right to emit. If they don't use all their permits, they can sell them to another company. Or an industry that in fact removes co2 from the atmosphere can sell permits to other companies as well. If for instance farmers can remove 1 tonne of co2 for $8 like Abbott thinks they can, this will drive down the price of permits.

Money raised goes to regulating the industry, and to move energy industry away from carbon. Also there is an initial spend to help business and individuals to adapt. When the industry is moved away from carbon, an ETS will be entirely irrelevant to them.

The most profitable multinationals in the world, who deal in oil and gas, are unsurprisingly against it because it limits the potential for growth in their niche. And ultimately, will kill their business model. That doesn't mean it isn't a good thing for the rest of us. It's not really a problem for the energy sector, who can invest in renewable energy technology, but for mining companies. They are the ones who are gonna basically get screwed, and there's not much to be done about that.

Since you don't think that human co2 emissions are pollution, then I'm not surprised that you say it won't "clean up human pollution". But on the basis of co2 emissions being pollution, a global ETS would most definitely "clean up" the atmosphere.

 

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dumbanddumber, are you sure you're not a closet socialist? You realise that you're more left wing than the government, right? You want to nationalise the banking sector and the energy sector and more impose more stringent economic regulations.

It's sad that you're not interested in reading an essay by the Australian Treasurer, but you spend all this time watching stupid youtube videos by "Koozoo news" and Alan Jone's "Galileo Movement".

An ETS is not a "tax". Presumably you are aware of this as you posted a video in another thread that says why a "tax" is better than an "ETS". So I don't know why you keep insisting on calling it a "tax". Presumably that is from your "political blinkers" as it was a rhetorical started and promoted by Abbott.

 

Have a look at this video from the 13:15 mark.

The capatalism we have right now is not capatalism its corporatism, thats where banks and corporations rule free markets and take over the sovereignty of nations.

This system is as bad as communism.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEB1gXTgABU"]Keiser Report 259: Gutting Competition - YouTube[/ame]

 

So you are against the Coalition surely?

 

No why should i be?

Like i said if capatalism was run like its suppose to be instead of the system we have today where banks and corporation rule free markets and countries it would be fine whether it was labor or liberal.

I am a labor supporter at heart and have always voted labor especailly at the last election because Gillard said there would no carbon tax.

Before that i voted for Rudd to get rid of John Howards work choices.

And at the next election i'm voting for Tony Abbott who has said he will recinder the carbon tax if he gets into power.

I might not like his colors but if he is a man of his word and does what he says he's going to do at least his not a traitor like Gillard who has sold us into financial slavery.

 

Because Coalition policy is completely at odds with everything in that video.

Yep, Tony Abbott is really gonna "recinder" the Carbon Pricing legislation if he doesn't control the Senate. Yep, that's definitely gonna happen. You know what his strategy is, if he doesn't have the senate? To get the ALP to support him. Yep, that's right. He thinks the ALP will vote to repeal their own policy. Because that's really likely to happen! Tony Abbott is a complete moron.

Let's just see if they can close this $70 billion black hole in their "promises".

And "financial Slavery", lolz.

 

No its not!

That video is highlighting the difference between real capatalism and the system we have today which is based on Milton Freidman and the chicago boys version.

 

Yes, and? If Dr. Michael Hudson was the leader of Coalition, then sure. But Coalition policy does not even remotely reflect what is in that video.

 

And labor does?

Like i said both sides have embraced this broken form of capatalism where the markets are anything but free!

More like a monopoly by the 1%.

 

Current Treasurer is much closer to your way of thinking than Abbott or Hockey. Again, I suggest you actually read his essay instead of simply remaining ignorant.

 

DENNIS DENUTO (acting for Clive Palmer): In summing up, it's the Constitution, it's Mabo, it's justice, it's law, it's the vibe and --

 

No. She has not introduced a carbon tax.

She has introduced a price on carbon. Just like she said she would:

Julia Gillard: My carbon price promise
JULIA Gillard says she is prepared to legislate a carbon price in the next term as part of a bold series of reforms that include school funding, education and health.
In an election-eve interview with The Australian, the Prime Minister revealed she would view victory tomorrow as a mandate for a carbon price


Read more: http://www.news.com.au/features/fed...se/story-fn5tar6a-1225907552000#ixzz1pYtw0KMP

Sorry - you can repeat the lies that Jonesy tells you all day - but it won't make actual fact disappear.

 

No. That is exactly what happened. There is no carbon tax. There is an ETS with a 3 year fixed price introductory period.

A price on carbon was introduced in line with Labor policy before the last election. That is what they were elected to deliver.

Cry all you want. You can't change fact.

"I don't rule out the possibility of legislating a Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme, a market-based mechanism," she said of the next parliament.

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/features/fed...se/story-fn5tar6a-1225907552000#ixzz1pYuske00

And that is what she has delivered. A a Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme, a market-based mechanism.

 

errr...sorry Champ. Making stuff up is no way to conduct an argument.

 

This is comedy gold!

No - she didn't. She introduced an ETS with a 3 year fixed price period. Not a tax. DO you know what a "tax" actually is?


An ETS works by setting a cap on emissions and requiring emitters to hold a permit for each tonne of CO₂ that they emit. The level of the cap determines the number of permits available.

A carbon tax is sort of the opposite. A cost is added to all emissions, equal to the level of the tax, and this causes people to cut back.

There is no cap on emissions in a tax-based system. People are free to emit as much or as little as they like, but if they do emit, they must pay the tax.

Unlike an ETS, under a carbon tax it is the price that determines the level of emissions.


http://theconversation.edu.au/explainer-the-difference-between-a-carbon-tax-and-an-ets-1679

Really!?!?!? How?!?!?

Let us just assume for sake of arguement that the Government HAS actually implemented a "carbon tax" (they haven't) - how is a tax implemented by a Federal Government "unconstitutional"?!?!?

Any answers? Or did you just write that to show us all how much you understand this subject? (good job of that BTW)

 

Well Clive has backed down from his legal challenge, and accused the greens of some CIA conspiracy. Gotta lol, can't say I'm surprised.