How do YOU define sexual harassment?

That does seem awfully wish-washy. Maybe we should get it in writing?

 

You remind me of the story from 'The Wit and Wisdom of Strippers' where a new company takes over the club and they give the staff a lecture on sexual harassment in the workplace and all the strippers are just sitting there thinking "Our whole JOB is to get sexually harassed?"

 

Talking to the opposite sex without going through a third party to vet what is going to be said. If you wish to ask the opposite sex for anything sexual then a marriage proposal needs to be attached and considered appropriate by a chaperone.

 

That kind of situation actually demonstrates the exact opposite and ironically draws the harassment line very clearly.

The job of a stripper is very much the opposite of sexual harassment but they're very much at risk of it and so are generally well protected against it. Plenty of strip clubs will have a "no touching" rule and in those that don't (or who don't enforce it), if you just walked in a grab a random stripper walking past, you'd likely get thrown out (or worse). If an employee harassed or assaulted any of the strippers, they'd be sacked (or worse). The only circumstances a customer would be permitted to have any kind of sexual contact with the strippers would be if they paid in some way, which is an implicit contract and therefore determines clear consent. It's actually a much clearer and better defined relationship than a personal one.

 

I'm finding it difficult to put a definition on sexual harassment. And I'm sure most have the same difficulty. As a woman, I have been sexually harassed, I suppose, when using the definitions being discussed. But I wasn't phased by it. I gave as good as I got, and I also had no difficulty when letting someone know they'd crossed a line with me. Having said that, I can imagine there are many women (and men) who aren't as comfortable drawing that line. Or saying 'no' to someone in a position who could make their career more difficult or limited. Those are the people for whom these laws are created. Have these laws been abused? I certainly believe so - but that is the case with all laws. People misuse them. But that isn't a good reason to belittle the importance of the laws.

 

let's face it, women want to be able to get men fired just for the thrill of it

They enjoy the raw power.

 

And the bouncers will beat you up!

 

I think that's a little too far but it does seem than a simple allegation can ruins lives.

 

so one must be employed, or in their place of employment in order for it to be harassment?

 

Not at all. If a person isn't employed you can't say anything work related can you? But you can still be an a** hole, right?

 

you are the one who introduced "work related", not me

 

troll

 

for calling you out on your clear ignorance of the topic?

 

Have to say other because these days all of the above. If you are in a superior position to an employee it is STRICTLY business. It can't be personal at all anymore. And even at equal levels if you pursue or ask someone to dinner be prepared for HR to come calling and telling you you have to attend this "training" class so they can reprogram you.

 

Sad, part of the problem is not as I see it that men in power feel 'entitled' but that women have always been attracted to them because of their position. But I guess they're going to have to rewrite all the romance novels, no longer will the winsome nurse be able to snare the handsome surgeon, the flight attendant hook herself a pilot or the secretary date her millionaire boss.

 

My understanding is that most of the horror stories of careers ruined are actually conservative culture wars mythology. Think about it. Unless there are clear recording microphones everywhere then even people rightly accused can just lie, and once an accuser fails to back up their claims in court with SOME sort of evidence the accused can turn about and sue the accuser. "He said, she said" is still a viable defense if you stick to it and only one victim is involved. The only way they got Harvey Weinstein and Cosby is that they had multiple victims and or claimed it was "consensual" (and actually bragged about it, Cosby made a whole routine about Spanish Fly and Quaaludes, Weinstein made promises he didn't keep and eventually graduated to threats on several women.

 

Now we're getting into actual sexual assault, aren't we? Remember always that rapists follow standard patterns. First, they harass their victims, then they rape them and finally they murder, ostensibly so the victim won't tell, (which they almost never do) but really to increase the sense of power, which is what rape is really all about.

 

In the corporate world, greasy jokes and unwanted touching is considered sexual harassment. Flirting can cross the line, if the person has been asked to stop, but continues anyway. Just leave women alone if you want to keep your job. Don't try to be friends with them, because one day (after a disagreement) your friendliness can be misrepresented as harassment.

 

But don't you find that sad? Doesn't it make work a joyless place?

 

Maybe, but that's the way its been for the past decades.

Me, I dated and married a co-worker. Many thought it was a bad idea to date co-workers, and its true in many cases, but we were a very young staff and there was a lot of dating and partying going on. A friend of mine paid the price and was accused of harassment soon after a break-up.

 

Good suggestion. This would let Cuomo off.

 

Then you are hanging around the wrong type of women.

 

That is not the "workplace" where everyone should be protected from creeps.

You can turn off the TV, you have to work.

 

Awww, so sad when men can't do anything they damn please....but are restricted to acting like mature adults...

 

You forgot : "All of the above".