How to address the US murder rate...?

If you blankly refuse to do any research on the topic yourself, actually discussing it is pointless. Go ahead and look up scientific studies on the issue, and you'll most likely find the answer to your question.

It's not like you should trust the word of me or anyone else on this forum anyway.

 

So, no, you can't answer my questions.
Thank you

 

Honestly who cares? Like, I don't care about the murder rate and it doesn't need to be reduced. The vast majority of the people killed are criminals and gangsters themselves. As for the rest of us just stay armed to the teeth and go shooting regularly to brush up on your skills. Maybe take some firearms training courses if you want to.

 

I can, but the answer would be the same one as you were already given including references to scientific studies. But you not only dismissed those answers; you also refused to read the studies.

So, if you do indeed want to learn the answers, look them up yourself.

 

Then do it.

 

You didn't listen to the other guy who gave the answer including links to scientific studies, why in the world would anyone believe you'd listen to anyone else?

 

There are a number of sociological theories about this. I would recommend learning about anomie and social conflict theory to start. You are talking about an entire field of study at this point. There's no easy answer.

 

You will note I addressed one of the studies he referenced and asked a question about it.
So now, its -your- turn to address thee questions I asked.

 

Seems to me that, regardless of education or affluence, people choose to act the way they act; these choices are guided at least in part, by an internal sense of right and wrong -- people who put little to no value on human life, for instance, are unlikely to change that value of they are better educated or have money. Correspondingly, people who place significant value on human life are unlikely to start murdering people simply because they are dumb and have no money.
Concur?

 

You are oversimplifying human behavior. It is complex and situational. For example, there are murderers who would never commit rape. Rapists who would never murder. Criminals who would ruin someones life financially, but never commit a violent crime. You could say that they have a sense of right and wrong, but it is complicated and based on experience and situation.

We can't understand or prevent crime by saying some people are bad and some people are good. That doesn't describe reality. In the real world some people sometimes make bad choices that hurt others. Those same people might be good, kind, loving, responsible, etc. in other situations.

We know that certain situations tend to increase the probability of criminal behavior. Poverty, violence, mental health are all factors. What can we do to help people get out of these situations? I would suggest improving the education system, reproductive care, health care, minimum wage, social safety nets, criminal rehabilitation, decrease drug criminalization, maybe a basic minimum income.

 

Is this causal or correlational?

That's great -- but what will this do to solve the issue of people who place little to no value on human life?

 

we don't have a national murder rate.

such an idea is silly, considering our size.

we have state murder rates

 

What you're saying is that welfare, the teachers unions, democrat identity politics and the pharmaceutical companies are largely at fault for the destruction of the black community

 

You are ignoring or leaving out the first part of my post. Criminal behavior is situational. Providing the services I listed could help prevent people from being in those situations in the future or help get people out of them.

 

I wouldn't specifically blame some of those organizations, but sure. Education system, prison system, health care system, government, etc. are all problems. At the same time those organizations could be part of the solution if we change the way things are done.

 

Sometimes, sure.
But, criminal behaviors is always a choice; no one is forced by circumstance to commit a murder, and so, situation only goes so far to explain the behavior.

 

Sure thing. So, how do we help keep people out of those situations and how do we decrease recidivism of people who have committed murder. There are numerous examples of people who commit murder and can be rehabilitated to become constructive law-abiding members of society.

 

While I agree it's not racial, it's cultural, how do you fix "poverty, family stability, education, criminal behavior of relatives, and mental health of relatives" among black Americans?

 

I don't know if you can fix anything. There probably will never be a world without crime and violence. I would suggest we start by improving outcomes for our education system, health care system, prison system.

 

The situation is of less importance than the fundamental decision as to the acceptability of committing murder.
I'd argue this is more a function of culture and upbringing than education or socioeconomic status.
Thus the question: how do we change the culture and upbringing?

 

Both of those figures are really high for a first world country. US is a violent country. There is more than one reason why the murder rate is so high.

 

See post #44.

There is a lot of evidence for strong culture and its positive effect on social outcomes. One of the theories regarding African-Americans, whose ancestors were slaves, is that their culture has basically been decimated. If you look at Black Americans who come from the West Indes, they have excellent outcomes and are among the most successful immigrants in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Indian_Americans. The idea being that they bring their culture and history with them and are able to succeed.

 

You failure to address the question is noted.

 

If the people currently alive were former slaves, I think you'd have a point - but they aren't.
Like you and I, they were born here and have access to every facet of American culture to choose from. - including that of the West Indies blacks.
No one is born with a culture, they pick it up from those surrounding them.

 

Those are all good ideas, but not new. It's not the idea that counts as much as the implementation. Of course a lot of this comes down to money. Cost.

Part of the problem can be solved by politicians standing up and expressing to their constituents (it's called "leadership") the wisdom of spending more money on poor schools so they'll spend less money on prisons. Each prisoner costs taxpayers about $30K/year. There are 2.2 MILLION prisoners in the USA, a rate of 471 per 100,000 citizens; 1 in every 212 Americans. While, due to factors like mental illness, there will always be a criminal element, reducing the rate of incarceration to the global midpoint of England at 145 per 100K would reduce annual prison costs from about $49B to about $15B. If we invested $33B into our poor schools, that's not just a break even since the outcome is free, taxpayer citizens. Taxpayers produce national revenue, prisoners cost taxpayers. Those who don't see the wisdom of this fact need some education themselves.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/uk/06/prisons/html/nn2page1.stm


https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...7171d0-9ce9-11e4-a7ee-526210d665b4_story.html
For the first time in at least 50 years, a majority of U.S. public school students come from low-income families, according to a new analysis of 2013 federal data, a statistic that has profound implications for the nation.

The Southern Education Foundation reports that 51 percent of students in pre-kindergarten through 12th grade in the 2012-2013 school year were eligible for the federal program that provides free and reduced-price lunches. The lunch program is a rough proxy for poverty, but the explosion in the number of needy children in the nation’s public classrooms is a recent phenomenon that has been gaining attention among educators, public officials and researchers....

....The data show poor students spread across the country, but the highest rates are concentrated in Southern and Western states. In 21 states, at least half the public school children were eligible for free and reduced-price lunches — ranging from Mississippi, where more than 70 percent of students were from low-income families, to Illinois, where one of every two students was low-income.

Carey Wright, Mississippi’s state superintendent of education, said quality preschool is the key to helping poor children.

“That’s huge,” she said. “These children can learn at the highest levels, but you have to provide for them. You can’t assume they have books at home, or they visit the library or go on vacations. You have to think about what you’re doing across the state and ensuring they’re getting what other children get.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/24/n...t-per-inmate-is-nearly-168000-study-says.html
The Vera Institute of Justice released a study in 2012 that found the aggregate cost of prisons in 2010 in the 40 states that participated was $39 billion.

The annual average taxpayer cost in these states was $31,286 per inmate.


https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=11

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/slideshows/10-states-with-the-highest-incarceration-rates