If your assignment was to design the grounds of a new European war, how would you line up the enemies? What would be the easiest start? 1. Arab states + arab immigrants against European states? 2. Or Russia against western Europe? 3. Or North European creditor nations against South European endebted nations? 4. Or other? What would be the easiest mix to start a new European war? (Or how difficult is this to do at all?)
There will not be a European war, ever again. Maybe civil wars, but no nation in the EU will attack any other using it's military. I think the next war could happen over this missile defence. Or when the EU attacks Belarus. Or if the Russians take it so far over the missile defence.
That was the common sentiment after WWI. Don't ever say "never", especially when it comes to human conflict.
How to start a war in Europe Just drive around with a bunch of Americans and tell local people they are Freedom Fighters looking for new Mission premisses .
Uh-huh, sure. Of course, it also helps that you have excluded the nations in Europe that have been fighting off and on for over a decade. The nations that make up the former Yugoslavia. I can give you a rundown in a moment of how I see one possible. Well, the first 3 I would throw out right away. The first and third one are pretty silly, and would never happen. And while the second is possible, Russia is not really a European nation. Now this is just an example, and I am not saying it is probably, but this is an example of what may be possible. Currently, Greece is in a lot of trouble. Deeply in debt, their government may be on the verge of collapse. And it looks like they will continue to be in trouble for years to come. In say 5 years, they may have the rise of a new political party. Taking a page from the party of a century ago, they will have the rise of a National Socialist government. Where the party claims they will solve the problems by controlling all the businesses, taxing the wealthy and bringing prosperity to everybody. Once they have control, they start useing the system of government to tighten their control. They pass laws and eventually minimalize then outlaw dissenting parties. As a way to increase their internal economy, they start "renovation projects", like improving rail lines, the highway system, and shipyards. Then they increase their military, as it is a good way to employ people. And in doing so need to increase theier armament industry. Then they may see that they need "περιθωρίου ελιγμών". They look around, and some people remember that parts of what is now Turkey, Albania and Macedonia were once theirs. So they start talking about restoring their "Historical Borders". And there you have it, a modern war in Europe. Most of the nations in Europe are made up of bits and pieces of other past nations. And all you need is one to start eying the resources of their neighbor to start to thinking of expansion again. Europe has a 4,000 year history of nations rising and falling, and of shifting alliances. Just look at England and France to see this. And it would not take much to set it in motion again. The mistake people keep making is that they are looking at the last 66 years of modern history, and totally ignoring the thousands of years that came before. That is a huge mistake.
This is so interesting. (And exciting.) I can imagine that even Hungary steps on this path. Also, thinking once again about your comment on the Russia possibility, if we still consider Russia even though it is not really Europe, how might that work itself up to a war?
I think the OP is taking about a Europe wide war, not just a region of Europe. Greece isn't Germany. It's not powerful at all, Turkey has more power. Your future wouldn't happen. As the new government would be commy not NAZI. Your are starting to sound like me.
Well, that is most often how wars start. A new government takes power, and starts to look at it's neighbors for expansion. Recent history is full of them. Kuwait and Iran were both invaded by Iraq for these reasons. The wars between former Yugoslav nations was also the same. And most of the initial regions invaded (peacefuly or not) by Germany were once parts of the German empire. And the story goes on and on all through the last 2,000 years. I find most of the other reasons given to be rather silly. But an expansionist government I can easily see happening some time in the future.
They were saying that before WW1 too. They thought that increased trade between nations would lessen the need for war plus they also thought that the massive webs of alliances between the European states would mean that no one would be game enough to start a war.
If one nation invaded another, that would eventully spark a continent wide war, as nations paird up against each other. And Greece is not Germany. But remember, nobody knows what the future would bring. In 1930, nobody could imagine Germany consolidating around an expansionist government, which would subvert the democratic system and start another war. After all, had they not recently completed the "war to end all wars"? Trying to predict the future is a fools game. Because what seems impossible this year will likely be what happens in 10. Who in 1981 would have expected the Soviet Union would collapse from it's own internal pressures within 10 years? If you had said that would happen in 1981, people would have called you crazy.
I think civil wars in several European countries is likely when their Muslim populations reach a tipping point, but that's several decades away. Although the Yugoslavian crack up was certainly a preview.
True, but that was actually predominantly a series of wars against the Islamic population of the region, not by the Islamic population of a region. So this would have some credence, if it were not for the fact that in the former Yugoslavia, the Christians were the ones that attacked and tried to eliminate the Muslims. And Religion could still pay a major part. It was not all that long ago that we had differing groups of Christians attacking each other in Europe, even mobilizing entire nations and alliances of nations in an attempt to root out "heritic" Christians.
there wont be any major wars in Europe anymore.. simple there is no more 2 sides needed for big conflict WW1 Triple Entente against Central Powers WW2 the Axis against the Allies now everyone is Axis ( NATO ) , with only Russia and some minor countries left on east ( Belorussia , Ukraine.. ) and they wouldn't dare to make any move leading to war . only minor conflicts are possible like a terrorists attacks in Macedonia and January November 2001 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurgency_in_the_Republic_of_Macedonia Macedonia with 25% Albanian population is hot spot in Europe, once they hit 50% they will attack again with support of Kosovo and Albanian terrorist Macedonians do not have much of chance
This is very interesting. Following your lineup, what if Hungary joins in with Russia and Ukraine and takes its neighbors off the map? Russia is big, so it is a strong supporter, and Hungary's neighbors are only carve-outs of the historic Hungarian land, as per Mushroom's description of nation formations/transformations earlier in this thread.
Blame Germany for something. That usually does the trick. Anyway, I feel the chances of another war happening on the scale of WWI or WWII are minimal (In the long run it could happen, but in the long run we're all dead) as long as nationalist sentiments are kept at bay, which I think would be easier considering how interconnected the world has become since.
yea if you look at everything as Black and White, CNN bullcrap ''Nikola Gardovic, a Serb, was the first civilian war victim to be killed in Sarajevo. He was the father of the groom in a Serbian wedding party that was attacked by Muslims in Sarajevo on March 1, 1992 during the referendum on Bosnias secession from Yugoslavia. Eyewitnesses identified Gardovics killer as Ramiz Delalic Celo, the commander of a notorious Muslim Green Beret paramilitary unit in based in Sarajevo '' [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkr1L1Mtf2Y&feature=related"]Ubica srpskog svata - YouTube[/ame] as he said him self he killed him because he was singing a Serbian song on wedding ... tomorrow Serbs blocked all Serb parts of Sarajevo in fear of new killings Muslims blocked their parts and war is started ...
Yes, attacks happened on both sides. But the wholesale slaughter was almost universally one way. Ethnic clensing, genocide, and crimes against humanity were almost entirely comitted against the Muslim citizens of the region. Compared to that, what was done by the Muslims is chicken feed.
no one denies that Muslim population suffered the most , 33,071 Muslim civilians killed and on other side and 6,238 Christians problem is that no-Muslim victims are ignored , thx to western media and their good guy - bad guy reporting. I see that similar now with Middle east Muslims Muslims bad - Christians/Jewish good ( FOX , CBN ) july 1995 Srebrenica is worst thing that could happen in war, it was a genocide no excuse for that. The Most of responsible for that.. officer, all possible Generals , Politicians etc are jailed , which is a good thing . but on other side what happened in 1992-1993 around Srebrenica is ignored , because then victim ware Serbs and attackers Muslim , reporting about that would be political incorrect. no one was convicted.. ''British journalist Joan Phillips that by March 31, 1993, "out of 9,300 Serbs who used to live (in the Srebrenica municipality), less than 900 remain…only three Serbian villages remain and around 26 have been destroyed." ("Victims and Villains in Bosnia's War," South Slav Journal, Spring-Summer 1992 — published in 1993). Many more were destroyed after that, and a 1995 Serb monograph entitled The Book of the Dead listed 3,287 Serbs from the Srebrenica region who were killed in the three years before July 1995'' http://www.fpif.org/articles/serb_demonization_as_propaganda_coup
I think I still have some credence. I didn't specify who would start the war. I think what you see in Europe now is basically a PC, and very (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) non defense of their own culture, but the root of that is that they don't think the dominate culture will ever be challenged my Muslim culture. They envision that eventually Muslim culture in Europe will become watered down and westernized. If three or four decades from now the realization hits that it's Western culture on the way out, the Westerners will get militant. Hence: Civil War.
